The Big Picture: Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22)

Published 2017-08-18; 0:41:23 by the feed.

As extracted (engineer-sonnet-2026-10-13)

The extraction calls the show “The Big Picture (The Ringer)” and the episode “Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make 'Lemon' | The Big Picture”.

Hosts: Sean Fennessey. Guests: Alison Herman (opening Atlanta segment), Janicza Bravo, Brett Gelman.

Subject films: Lemon (2017), Juneteenth (Atlanta episode) (2016).

On the transcript: No speaker labels; the Atlanta segment is Sean and Alison Herman (Amanda Dobbins is not present), then the interview with Janicza and Brett whose turns are often hard to separate. Sponsor reads at 0:24:54 and 0:40:52 are ads.

Films that came up

passing (3)

Game of Thrones · Community · Death Note

subject (1)

Lemon

compared (9)

Juneteenth (Atlanta episode) · Atlanta (TV series) · Eyes Wide Shut · Get Out · Curb Your Enthusiasm · Catastrophe · You're the Worst · Loser white guy comedies (genre, no specific titles) · Twin Peaks

anecdote (3)

Eat (short) · New York lotto commercial (Brett as Jewish minstrel) · Gregor Goboom (short)

Claims (24)

  1. career (career): Donald Glover → Community. Alison says Glover was mostly a comic performer (stand-up, Community ensemble) before Atlanta let him be a reactive straight man.
    “he's mostly the comic performer either as a stand-up or an ensemble member in community.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:03:38 · Alison Herman (0.90 sure it was them)
  2. theme (theme): Juneteenth (Atlanta episode) → Lemon. Sean calls Juneteenth a sister to Lemon because both explore awkward encounters between privilege and non-privilege.
    “it really makes Juneteenth a sister of some kind to lemon and that movie explores it as well.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:04:26 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)
  3. lineage (lineage): Juneteenth (Atlanta episode) → Eyes Wide Shut. Donald Glover's character describes the party as a Spike-directed reboot of Eyes Wide Shut.
    “this is like a spikely directed reboot of eyes wide shut”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:04:44 · Alison Herman (0.85 sure it was them)
  4. theme (theme): Juneteenth (Atlanta episode) → Get Out. Alison says it reminds her of Get Out in using white affluence to create dread, though Get Out is more visceral.
    “it almost reminds me of get out, like using the trappings of white affluence to inspire this feeling of dread and discomfort”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:04:44 · Alison Herman (0.90 sure it was them)
  5. contrast (contrast): Juneteenth (Atlanta episode) → Atlanta (TV series). The season finale is a low-stakes caper, while Juneteenth is the emotional climax.
    “the finale is much more of a caper that isolates aren't on his own”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:07:27 · Alison Herman (0.90 sure it was them)
  6. industry (industry): Juneteenth (Atlanta episode) → Game of Thrones. Alison jokes that the episode is the season's Battle of the Bastards, a money shot, and that she is obliged to plug Game of Thrones.
    “It's like the Game of Thrones money shot, but I am contractually obligated to make that reference in this podcast.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:07:54 · Alison Herman (0.70 sure it was them)
  7. craft (craft): Janicza Bravo → Donald Glover. Sean says Bravo applied her point of view to a world Glover and his writers built.
    “Genixa applying her point of view on a pre-established world that Donald has created with his writer's room and with his filmmakers.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:08:14 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)
  8. craft (craft): Juneteenth (Atlanta episode) → Lemon. Sean says the tone of awkward comedy with high tension links the episode to the film.
    “Lemon, though, is really, like I said, kind of related to it”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:08:23 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)
  9. lineage (lineage): Juneteenth (Atlanta episode) → Curb Your Enthusiasm. Sean ties the episode and Lemon's awkward comedy to Larry David's Curb.
    “I was thinking of curb your enthusiasm and the way that Larry David would throw people into social situations that make you want to tear your skin off.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:08:37 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)
  10. craft (craft): Atlanta (TV series) → Catastrophe. Alison says both pair partners who commiserate through awkward situations.
    “I brought up catastrophe in the sense that you get the sense of these people as a couple commiserating together”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:08:52 · Alison Herman (0.90 sure it was them)
  11. theme (theme): Catastrophe → You're the Worst. Alison names it as another TV romcom pairing two people who share the embarrassment.
    “you're the worst is coming back soon is another excellent example”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:09:08 · Alison Herman (0.90 sure it was them)
  12. verdict (verdict): Chris Ryan → Catastrophe. Chris Ryan avoids these cringe shows because he does not want to feel bad about social interaction; Alison and Sean love Catastrophe anyway.
    “our colleague, Chris Ryan, always says that he can't watch these shows because he doesn't want to feel bad about social interaction.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:09:27 · Alison Herman (0.80 sure it was them)
  13. lineage (origin): Lemon → Lemon. The Sundance lab deadline, which came from a lie, produced the first draft in five days.
    “because of this deadline, this kind of self-imposed deadline, that was the result of a lie, we ended up having this script.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:12:57 · Janicza Bravo (0.85 sure it was them)
  14. career (career): Eat (short) → Michael Sarah. Michael saw Bravo's short Eat at South by Southwest and wrote Brett about wanting to work with her.
    “he saw my short eat and had in that time sort of written Brett about really liking that piece”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:14:14 · Janicza Bravo (0.85 sure it was them)
  15. people (people): Lemon → Michael Sarah. Bravo and Gelman wrote the part for him before he liked her short, a serendipity.
    “we were writing this part for him and then he actually liked the thing that I made.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:14:33 · Janicza Bravo (0.80 sure it was them)
  16. lineage (lineage): New York lotto commercial (Brett as Jewish minstrel) → Lemon. A scene in Lemon is an homage to the commercial where the couple met.
    “the scene where he and me and me is sort of in homage to that place that we met”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:18:23 · Janicza Bravo (0.80 sure it was them)
  17. career (career): Gregor Goboom (short) → Lemon. Sean asks whether Lemon is more confident because the collapse and the Gregor Goboom detour happened; Bravo says yes, the delay was her incubation.
    “Do you think that Lemon would not have been, I don't know, maybe as accomplished or as like confident, if that hadn't happened”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:23:58 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)
  18. contrast (contrast): Lemon → Loser white guy comedies (genre, no specific titles). Lemon is a commentary on the genre of the flailing 30-40 year old white guy for whom everything works out.
    “it is a 1000% of commentary on this kind of genre of 30 something 40 something year old white guy who is flailing through life, but that everything works out for.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:30:30 · Janicza Bravo (0.60 sure it was them)
  19. craft (craft): Lemon → Loser white guy comedies (genre, no specific titles). Lemon follows love, family and career like those films but ends in plateau and failure.
    “lemon goes through love life, family, and career in the same way, but it's all plateau, and it's all failure”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:31:02 · Janicza Bravo (0.60 sure it was them)
  20. craft (craft): Joy McMillan → Lemon. Bravo says she asked editor Joy McMillan to keep lengthening the tug-of-war scene, from about 15 seconds up to 90 and back to about 45.
    “my note to our editor was to make it longer to our editor, Joy McMillan.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:35:04 · Janicza Bravo (0.90 sure it was them)
  21. people (people): Brett Gelman → Janicza Bravo. Gelman calls Bravo his favorite director right now.
    “my favorite director right now.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:37:04 · Brett Gelman (0.90 sure it was them)
  22. theme (theme): Lemon → Twin Peaks. Sean sees a commonality of tone between Lemon and Twin Peaks; the guests take it as a compliment.
    “There is a little bit of a commonality between Lemon and Twin Peaks.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:38:56 · Sean Fennessey (0.85 sure it was them)
  23. people (people): Janicza Bravo → David Lynch. Gelman says the same moment can read as disturbing or hilarious in a Lynch film or a Bravo film.
    “And both filmmakers make nightmares.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:39:38 · Brett Gelman (0.60 sure it was them)
  24. contrast (contrast): Janicza Bravo → David Lynch. Bravo says Lynch works in nightmares while she works in anxiety, an internal demon rather than a demon behind the garbage can.
    “I think he works in nightmares and I feel I work in anxiety.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:39:41 · Janicza Bravo (0.75 sure it was them)

Fun items (20)

  1. fun, about Juneteenth (Atlanta episode): The host husband's condescending compliment to Ern.
    “Black people taking ownership of music.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:03:36 · Alison Herman (0.85 sure it was them)
  2. fun, about Donald Glover: Glover has one of the most gif-able reaction faces; Atlanta lets him play a reactive straight man.
    “Donald Glover has one of the most all-time jiffable reaction faces”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:03:38 · Alison Herman (0.90 sure it was them)
  3. fun, about Juneteenth (Atlanta episode): The white optometrist hostage-holds the guests with an impromptu slam poem about Jim Crow; Bravo films him from below so he looks warped.
    “gives a like impromptu slam poem about Jim Crow.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:05:14 · Alison Herman (0.90 sure it was them)
  4. fun, about Juneteenth (Atlanta episode): Monique's balcony confession to Van.
    “It's my husband uses black people as a hobby, but I like him, but I love my money.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:07:03 · Alison Herman (0.85 sure it was them)
  5. fun, about Chris Ryan: The Ringer colleague avoids cringe comedy.
    “he can't watch these shows because he doesn't want to feel bad about social interaction.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:09:27 · Alison Herman (0.80 sure it was them)
  6. fun, about Lemon: Bravo told Sundance people she had a feature when she did not; she and Gelman wrote the first draft in five days at South by Southwest.
    “They asked if I had a feature, I lied and said yes.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:11:10 · Janicza Bravo (0.85 sure it was them)
  7. fun, about Lemon: Michael read the script and said yes the same day, which fast-tracked the film.
    “And Michael read it that day and said yes to doing it that day”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:13:31 · Janicza Bravo (0.85 sure it was them)
  8. fun, about Lemon: A financier said she could say yes only if the film were all black; Bravo thought she was full of it.
    “There was that one person that was like, if this is all if this was all black, I could say yes to it.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:15:59 · Brett Gelman (0.55 sure it was them)
  9. fun, about Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman: They met on a lotto commercial where Brett played a Jewish minstrel and she was the stylist.
    “We met on this commercial 9 years ago on New York lotto commercial where Brett was playing a Jewish minstrel.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:18:12 · Janicza Bravo (0.85 sure it was them)
  10. fun, about Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman: Their first date was his comedy show, which she slept through.
    “I think our date consisted of us going to a comedy show where he performed that I slept through.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:19:00 · Janicza Bravo (0.85 sure it was them)
  11. fun, about Lemon: Gelman's elevator pitch for the film.
    “I always say that, uh, come watch me fail for 90 minutes.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:22:20 · Brett Gelman (0.65 sure it was them)
  12. fun, about Lemon: On the first day of pre-production an actor dropped out, funding fell apart in three to five days, and Bravo fell into a depression for the rest of the year.
    “and I fell into a very deep depression that lasted for, I think the rest of that year.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:23:20 · Janicza Bravo (0.85 sure it was them)
  13. fun, about Gregor Goboom (short): Her follow-up short was pitched to Michael's new company with Sarah Silverman, Tim and Eric and Reggie Watts.
    “Michael was a part of this company called Josh that was launching, that is Michael Sarah, Sarah Silverman, Tim and Eric and Reggie Watts.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:23:32 · Janicza Bravo (0.80 sure it was them)
  14. fun, about Lemon: Gelman, as producer, acted as a bodyguard on set.
    “it's sort of like I have my own bodyguard here.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:27:27 · Janicza Bravo (0.80 sure it was them)
  15. fun, about Lemon: Bravo wondered whether an audience would be as charmed if the flailing guy were a person of color.
    “I think they'd be disgusted.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:31:00 · Janicza Bravo (0.65 sure it was them)
  16. fun, about Juneteenth (Atlanta episode): Bravo on being sent the script: it was so her thing.
    “Like, I love race, race play is like hot for me.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:34:20 · Janicza Bravo (0.85 sure it was them)
  17. fun, about Lemon: The tug-of-war scene: Bravo kept asking the editor to make it longer, from 15 seconds to 90 and back to about 45.
    “And at one point we had it going for, I think like 90 seconds and that was too long.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:35:13 · Janicza Bravo (0.85 sure it was them)
  18. fun, about Brett Gelman: His self-description as an actor.
    “that's enough for a narcissist like me.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:38:00 · Brett Gelman (0.90 sure it was them)
  19. fun, about Twin Peaks: Gelman contrasts Lynch's demon behind the garbage can with Bravo's internal demon.
    “he's more he's more like demon behind the garbage can.”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:39:59 · Brett Gelman (0.60 sure it was them)
  20. fun, about Death Note: Teaser for next week: Adam Wingard on getting Death Note to Netflix.
    “We have a really great episode with one of my favorite directors, Adam Wingard”
    The Big Picture · Janicza Bravo and Brett Gelman Channel Rejection and Anxiety to Make ‘Lemon’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 22) · 0:40:23 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)

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