The Big Picture: 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview

Published 2019-04-08; 0:45:50 by the feed.

As extracted (engineer-sonnet-2026-10-13)

The extraction calls the show “The Big Picture (The Ringer)” and the episode “'Shazam!' and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview”.

Hosts: Sean Fennessey. Guests: Miles Surrey, David F. Sandberg.

Subject films: Shazam! (2019).

On the transcript: Speaker turns are unlabeled and sometimes merged into single lines (e.g. 0:26:01); Amanda Dobbins is mentioned only in the outro and is not present. Ads and promos at 0:00:01, 0:12:33 and 0:45:13 are skipped.

Added from the extractor's memory, not said

Films that came up

subject (1)

Shazam!

anecdote (3)

Annabelle: Creation · Lights Out (2.5-minute short and feature) · Magnolia

compared (10)

Aquaman · Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice · Justice League · Wonder Woman · Big · Spider-Man (Peter Parker films, as a generic comparison) · Joker · Birds of Prey · Terminator 2: Judgment Day · War of the Worlds

passing (15)

Aquaman 2 and The Trench spinoff (planned) · Black Adam (planned) · Shazam 2 (possible sequel) · Suicide Squad (planned reboot) · The Flash (planned) · Justice League 2 (not planned) · Green Lantern (planned) · The Batman · Avengers: Endgame · Water for Elephants · The Girl in the Spider's Web · Her Smell · Guardians of the Galaxy · Captain America: The First Avenger · The Avengers

recommended (1)

Dragged Across Concrete

Claims (36)

  1. contrast (contrast): Shazam! → Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. Fennessey says Shazam!'s tone differs significantly from Superman versus Batman and the Justice League films.
    “I think tonally this movie is pretty significantly different from Superman versus Batman and the Justice League films”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:03:02 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)
  2. contrast (contrast): Shazam! → Aquaman. Fennessey says Shazam! is lighter but not as operatically goofy as Aquaman.
    “it's not quite as operatically goofy as Aquaman was”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:03:17 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)
  3. lineage (lineage): Shazam! → Amblin. Miles says Shazam! has the throwback coming-of-age feel of 1980s Amblin movies.
    “something you would see from like ambling in like the 80s”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:03:27 · Miles Surrey (0.85 sure it was them)
  4. lineage (lineage): Shazam! → Big. Fennessey calls Shazam! essentially Big as a superhero movie.
    “the movie is clearly pitched as sort of what if big but superhero”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:04:17 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)
  5. contrast (contrast): Shazam! → Spider-Man (Peter Parker films, as a generic comparison). Miles says most superhero movies turn derivative at the power-discovery stage, as with Peter Parker scaling skyscrapers, but Shazam! felt genuine there.
    “like Peter Parker like scaling skyscrapers type of thing”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:05:03 · Miles Surrey (0.85 sure it was them)
  6. theme (theme): Shazam! → Wonder Woman. Both films, in Miles's view, start clever and then end in a punching match with a monster or villain.
    “That was also one of my struggles, honestly, with Wonder Woman”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:06:26 · Sean Fennessey (0.60 sure it was them)
  7. people (people): Wonder Woman → David Thewlis. The Wonder Woman finale had Diana fighting a demon monster played by Thewlis.
    “ultimately just turned into Diana fighting like a demon monster, who was played by David Thulas”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:06:31 · Sean Fennessey (0.60 sure it was them)
  8. industry (industry): Justice League → Shazam!. DC pivoted to standalone films after Justice League underperformed against expectations.
    “they did a pretty quick pivot from, like, fast tracking their Justice League movie”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:06:43 · Miles Surrey (0.85 sure it was them)
  9. programming (programming): Aquaman → Aquaman 2 and The Trench spinoff (planned). Miles says Aquaman mostly planted seeds for a sequel and a Trench spinoff.
    “Aquaman, you know, was only really playing the seeds for Aquaman 2”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:06:56 · Miles Surrey (0.85 sure it was them)
  10. programming (programming): Shazam! → Black Adam (planned). Miles expects Shazam! to lead into Shazam 2 or a Black Adam movie.
    “it's just leading into Shazam 2 or maybe like a Black Adam movie”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:07:21 · Miles Surrey (0.85 sure it was them)
  11. people (people): Dwayne Johnson → Black Adam (planned). Black Adam, a Shazam villain, is supposed to be played by Dwayne Johnson.
    “a Black Adam movie, which is like a Shazam villain that's supposed to be played by Dwayne Johnson”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:07:21 · Miles Surrey (0.85 sure it was them)
  12. people (people): James Gunn → Suicide Squad (planned reboot). Miles lists a rebooted Suicide Squad with James Gunn among DC projects.
    “a rebooted suicide squad with James Gunn”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:07:30 · Miles Surrey (0.85 sure it was them)
  13. contrast (contrast): Shazam! → Joker. Fennessey says Joker is standalone and has virtually nothing in common with Shazam!.
    “Joker, which is coming in October, which also feels quite standalone and seems to have virtually nothing in common with a movie like Shazam”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:08:06 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)
  14. contrast (contrast): Birds of Prey → Joker. Fennessey says Birds of Prey looks tonally and visually unlike Shazam! and Joker.
    “that tonally and visually looks completely different from those other 2 movies”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:08:25 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)
  15. industry (industry): Zack Snyder → Justice League. Fennessey ties the stormy shared look of earlier DC films to Zack Snyder, which DC is now abandoning.
    “the same kind of stormy visual aesthetic that Zack Snyder created”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:08:28 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)
  16. people (people): The Batman → Matt Reeves. Fennessey names The Batman as Matt Reeves's movie, due late next year.
    “the Batman, which is Matt Reeves's Batman movie”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:08:58 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)
  17. verdict (verdict): Shazam! → Wonder Woman. Miles was less of a fan of Wonder Woman than others were.
    “I personally wasn't as big of a fan as as Wonder Woman, as other people were”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:09:17 · Miles Surrey (0.85 sure it was them)
  18. industry (industry): Avengers: Endgame → Shazam!. Miles has Marvel fatigue from years of buildup to Endgame and prefers DC's standalone approach.
    “it feels like we've been preparing for endgame, like, just forever”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:09:17 · Miles Surrey (0.85 sure it was them)
  19. lineage (lineage): Joker → Martin Scorsese. Miles imagines Joker as a Scorsese pastiche that may not work.
    “it's like a Scorsese Pestiche that just kind of doesn't work”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:10:08 · Miles Surrey (0.85 sure it was them)
  20. career (career): Zachary Levi → John Krasinski. Miles says sitcom stars can transform, from Chuck to a buff Shazam, and Jim from The Office to a horror movie and a Michael Bay film.
    “I never expected Jim from the office to like, you know, make a sound horror movie and also become buff for like a Michael Bay film”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:11:31 · Miles Surrey (0.80 sure it was them)
  21. people (people): Chris Pratt → Brendan Fraser. Miles dismisses Chris Pratt as a discount Brendan Fraser.
    “He's like a discount Brandon Frazier”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:12:06 · Miles Surrey (0.50 sure it was them)
  22. lineage (lineage): Shazam! → Big. Sandberg says the studio pitched it to him as Big with superpowers.
    “it's basically uh, big, but with superpowers”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:14:30 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  23. craft (craft): Annabelle: Creation → Shazam!. Sandberg brought back his Annabelle: Creation costume designer, who had not done a superhero suit before.
    “costume designer, Leah Butler, who I worked with on Alba Creation”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:23:14 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  24. career (career): Jennifer Spence → Shazam!. Sandberg says production designer Spence stepped up alongside his returning crew on Shazam!.
    “or production design, Jennifer Spence, and like it felt like we all got to step up together.”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:23:14 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  25. what-if (what-if): Shazam! → Black Adam (planned). The earlier Shazam script was Shazam versus Black Adam; it was judged too much for one movie, so Black Adam was cut.
    “we have this script that's basically Shazam versus Black Adam, which is a long time nemesis”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:24:29 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  26. craft (craft): Shazam! → Terminator 2: Judgment Day. Fennessey asks whether an effects shot echoes the T-1000 reassembling in Terminator 2; Sandberg agrees he references other films.
    “this is basically that shot in Terminator 2, when the T 1000 gets, you know, comes back together and rises up”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:26:01 · Sean Fennessey (0.70 sure it was them)
  27. craft (craft): Shazam! → War of the Worlds. Sandberg wanted buildings to explode as in Spielberg's War of the Worlds when the tripods fire.
    “the buildings explode in War of the Worlds, the Spielbergs, you know, when the tripods shoot through the buildings”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:26:01 · David F. Sandberg (0.70 sure it was them)
  28. craft (craft): David F. Sandberg → Lights Out (2.5-minute short and feature). On his no-budget films Sandberg did everything himself, from the music to the visual effects and the editing.
    “I was the one doing everything, you know, from the music to the visual effects and the editing.”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:26:39 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  29. craft (craft): David F. Sandberg → Shazam!. Sandberg shot himself with action figures to show the previs team the action he wanted.
    “on this movie, I just shoot myself playing with action figures.”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:27:06 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  30. theme (theme): Annabelle: Creation → Shazam!. Sandberg liked that, like Annabelle: Creation, Shazam! sits in a shared universe but stands as its own story.
    “even though it is a sequel in this part of the universe, it was a prequel with all new characters and like a new story”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:29:53 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  31. craft (craft): James → Annabelle: Creation. James felt Annabelle's first design looked too evil, so her features were softened.
    “James actually felt that she was almost too obviously evil looking”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:30:12 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  32. people (people): Annabelle: Creation → Shazam!. Grace Fulton, who plays Mary, was an easy cast because Sandberg had worked with her on Annabelle: Creation.
    “Grace Fulton, who plays Mary, because I worked with her on, um, uh, Annabelle Creation”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:32:27 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  33. career (career): Lights Out (2.5-minute short and feature) → Annabelle: Creation. Sandberg moved from Lights Out straight to Annabelle: Creation, attached during Lights Out's post.
    “during post on lights out, I'd already been attached to Annabelle Creation”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:41:03 · David F. Sandberg (0.90 sure it was them)
  34. career (career): David F. Sandberg → Alicia Vikander / Joel Kinnaman / Alexander Skarsgard. Sandberg contrasts himself with the Hollywood Swedes, who came up through Swedish film, with the community never inviting him.
    “they all came here, sort of the same path through Swedish movies”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:43:04 · David F. Sandberg (0.90 sure it was them)
  35. people (people): Fede Alvarez → The Girl in the Spider's Web. Sandberg met Alvarez, who directed The Girl in the Spider's Web, and asked what shooting in Sweden is like.
    “who directed the girl in the spider's web”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:43:23 · David F. Sandberg (0.90 sure it was them)
  36. people (people): Dragged Across Concrete → Jennifer Carpenter. Sandberg told his wife to see Jennifer Carpenter's part in Dragged Across Concrete.
    “remember Jennifer Carpenter, you know, from like Dexter?”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:44:07 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)

Fun items (24)

  1. fun, about Shazam!: The character was originally called Captain Marvel and became Shazam when folded into DC, since Marvel had its own.
    “he was actually originally called Captain Marvel”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:02:21 · Miles Surrey (0.85 sure it was them)
  2. fun, about Shazam!: Miles on what a real 14-year-old with powers would do: buy beer, hit a strip club, and rave about the wings because it's PG-13.
    “would go to script strip club and like beam about the chicken wings because this is a PG 13 movie”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:05:23 · Miles Surrey (0.85 sure it was them)
  3. fun, about The Trench: Sarcastic hype for the planned Aquaman Trench spinoff.
    “Can't wait for the trench.”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:07:13 · Sean Fennessey (0.70 sure it was them)
  4. fun, about Zachary Levi: Miles's cast-a-sitcom-star bit ends with Adam Scott as Galactus.
    “if Adam Scott were cast as Galactus”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:12:12 · Miles Surrey (0.55 sure it was them)
  5. fun, about David F. Sandberg: As a kid in Sweden he loved a comic that crossed Superman and Spider-Man and never knew about the DC versus Marvel divide.
    “I had this comic book that I really loved that was Superman and Spider-Man fighting together.”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:14:02 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  6. fun, about Lights Out (2.5-minute short and feature): The short went viral: 17,000 views, then 70,000 a minute later.
    “we went to like Vimeo and to check the views and it was like 17,000”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:15:18 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  7. fun, about Lights Out (2.5-minute short and feature): Sandberg compares sudden Hollywood access to the warp zone in Super Mario Bros.
    “I keep saying that it's like hitting the warp zone and Super Mario Brothers”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:16:59 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  8. fun, about Lights Out (2.5-minute short and feature): He had never been on a professional set before directing, and had to ask his first AD when to say action.
    “I had to take my 1st AD aside and like ask him, like, so when do I say action?”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:19:53 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  9. fun, about Lights Out (2.5-minute short and feature): Crew friction on his first feature, resolved by showing he knew cameras.
    “no, I actually know how cameras work”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:20:45 · David F. Sandberg (0.90 sure it was them)
  10. fun, about Lights Out (2.5-minute short and feature): Trade secret: schedules and budgets are guesswork, and you can ask the studio for an extra day.
    “schedules and budgets in movies are guesswork, you know?”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:22:01 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  11. fun, about David F. Sandberg: He remembers films so well that he knows songs by the movie they were in.
    “whenever I know a song, she's like, all right, what movie was it in?”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:25:35 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  12. fun, about Shazam!: Sandberg previsualized scenes by filming himself with action figures and handing it to the CG team.
    “I just shoot myself playing with action figures.”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:27:06 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  13. fun, about Shazam!: Why communication is hard: even a gray line on a graphic gets returned wrong several times.
    “yeah, I want a gray line down here.”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:28:02 · David F. Sandberg (0.90 sure it was them)
  14. fun, about Annabelle: Creation: The doll was redesigned and softened because it looked too obviously evil.
    “James actually felt that she was almost too obviously evil looking”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:30:12 · David F. Sandberg (0.90 sure it was them)
  15. fun, about Zachary Levi: Sandberg had never seen Chuck, which he counts as an advantage.
    “I'd never seen Chuck, which is probably a good thing because that meant I didn't have any preconceived notions.”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:30:45 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  16. fun, about Zachary Levi: He first auditioned for a different character; Sandberg saw the tape and knew he was Shazam.
    “He was actually auditioning for a different character.”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:31:25 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  17. fun, about Zachary Levi: Sandberg on what made Levi right: adult actors dumb down to play kids, Levi carries the enthusiasm instead.
    “a lot of actors, you know, if they're adults, they dumb themselves down, you know, to play a kid”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:31:46 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  18. fun, about Shazam!: Casting rule: to be Shazam you must audition, since no one had seen these adult actors play a child.
    “we had this rule that if you want to be Shazam, you have to come in and audition”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:31:59 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  19. fun, about Shazam!: Sandberg on big VFX films: spectacle on screen is tedious to shoot.
    “the more spectacular it looks on screen, the more boring it probably was to shoot”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:35:09 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  20. fun, about Lights Out (2.5-minute short and feature): Green lights are loose: the crew had the office and the big train before official approval.
    “We had the big train, we had everything before we got our green lights.”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:39:48 · David F. Sandberg (0.90 sure it was them)
  21. fun, about Shazam 2 (possible sequel): Asked about a sequel, Sandberg compares it to asking a marathoner to run another.
    “you're asking someone who just ran a marathon”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:40:38 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  22. fun, about Annabelle: Creation: He left Annabelle: Creation's set early one day to attend the Lights Out premiere.
    “I have to go to the premiere of my other movie.”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:41:48 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)
  23. fun, about David F. Sandberg: On the Hollywood Swedes' get-togethers.
    “but we've never been invited”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:42:58 · David F. Sandberg (0.90 sure it was them)
  24. fun, about Dragged Across Concrete: His last great watch: long, slow, brutal, and he shows his wife horrible things.
    “I have a tendency of showing Lotta really horrible things.”
    The Big Picture · 'Shazam!’ and the Future of the DCEU With David F. Sandberg | Interview · 0:43:56 · David F. Sandberg (0.95 sure it was them)

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