Loves charisma performances, movie stars at their peak, and trivia from Tarantino's circle. Champions Brad Pitt as the winner. Can't stand awards mistakes like The Artist winning, and he warns about the 'Oscars should wait five years' view. A sucker for 1960s details, driving scenes, and Boogie Nights real estate.
Stances
Brad Pitt won the movie
Oscars should be awarded five years later
Focus is underrated
Humor: Runs bits on movies he almost bought, fake research, and sports-style comparisons.
In their words
“I think Pitt won the movie.” (1:17:58)
“I think I'm the only one that likes focus.” (0:32:43)
Loves the mid-80s Eddie Murphy and the movie's cultural phenomenon, and has a clear soft spot for Lisa Eilbacher. Is a sucker for Hollywood-excess anecdotes (Simpson, cocaine, Rourke, Stallone) and for sports analogies. Has little patience for plot logic holes but loves list games and categories.
Stances
Eddie Murphy in 1984 was the biggest star in the world after Michael Jackson
Lisa Eilbacher is the Apex Mountain and the film's winner
The Eddie-Murphy-as-star what-if game (Top Gun) is a worthwhile question
Humor: Rapid-fire sports analogies (WAR, LeBron, Dion Waiters, Shawn Michaels) and mock-indignant asides.
Loves the lore of how a movie got made, the lists (casting what-ifs, recasting), and the 'unanswerable questions' category. Has little patience for Lawrence Tierney's acting or for Ebert missing on Tarantino. He remembers the 1992 Boston era of a movie that mattered and is a sucker for a heist.
Stances
Tarantino won the movie
Lawrence Tierney is bad (the 'Mike Francesa' bit)
Does not want new Reservoir Dogs content
Wants to see the heist, plays devil's advocate
Humor: Throws sports analogies, invents award names, and runs recurring bits like Roger Ebert and Felony Land.
In their words
“I love bank ice scenes.” (1:23:55)
“It's Tarantino, and I think all of those actors robbing a bank.” (1:23:22)
“Can I make the case for seeing the heist?” (1:23:18)
Loves ensemble casts and film-lineage framing, sports analogies (Dwight Gooden, Penny Hardaway), and the show's recurring awards. Wants a better soundtrack, and cannot stand the ending speech. Is a sucker for his wife and kids' opinions of the film.
Stances
Mean Girls is the best Lorne Michaels movie
Lohan's decline is like an athlete's lost career
Soundtrack and ending speech are weak
Humor: Dry, sports-and-family riffs, often teased by his co-hosts.
In their words
“that was like Dwight Gooden in 1985 on the Mets.” (0:27:59)
“I think this is the best Lauren Michaels movie.” (0:16:22)
Bill loves old-school sports myth-making, baseball nostalgia, the Natural's chill scene, and stat-nerd rabbit holes like reconstructing Roy Hobbs's season. He is picky about throwing motions and lineup logic, and is a sucker for the dugout-emptying slow-motion shot. He ranks Bull Durham/Hoosiers/Rocky near the top and finds slow hospital stretches in sports movies unbearable.
Stances
The Natural used to be the greatest sports movie but is now slower than he remembers
Every great sports movie needs a chill scene
Dislikes bad throwing motions on screen
Hospital detours in sports movies should be cut short
Roy Hobbs was a Bonds-level statistical machine, or worse
Humor: Dry, list-making sports-nerd riffs and reaching pop-culture asides (Bachelor, Harry Potter) delivered as if serious.
In their words
“My move with sports movies is like, get me out of the hospital as fast as possible.” (1:00:37)
“nothing drives me crazier than when somebody can't throw in a baseball movie.” (0:56:43)
Loves Gen X touchstones and basketball analogies; sticks up for Winona Ryder and Friends season one; mocks Troy-type guys and over-talky English majors. A sucker for half-assed internet research and awards-bit tradition.
Stances
Winona Ryder won the movie
Singles is a flawed but beloved sibling
Ben Stiller deserves credit
Humor: Rolls NBA references and mock-feuds into everything.
In their words
“I do look at her in a way, like, uh, like I look at some NBA players.” (0:32:14)
Loves sports-adjacent silliness, big broad comedy and quotable lines, and wedding toast chaos. Can't stand being wrong about movie trivia he has already litigated. A sucker for his own running categories and bits (Ebert, Joey Pants, Dion Waiters).
Stances
Roger Ebert is never to be trusted on comedies
Comedies of the era were a nice 6-7 year run
Open your movie with a wedding theory
Luke Wilson is not Harrison Ford
Humor: Deadpan rapid-fire teasing of co-hosts and mock-outrage, plus sports references.
In their words
“never to be trusted on comedies.” (0:15:17)
“This movie also nicely slots into my open your movie with a wedding theory.” (1:01:05)
Loves sports analogies, Kurt Russell and Pacino's Cruising, defends 90s movies like Fletch. Dislikes dated romance interludes like the picnic. A sucker for mustaches and Dana Wheeler-Nicholson.
Stances
Val Kilmer wins the movie
Wyatt Earp is the rival, Tombstone is more entertaining
Cruising is incredible
Cut the 12-minute theater scene
Humor: Rapid-fire sports comparisons and teasing his cohosts.
In their words
“I think this movie is the perfect microcosm of both of their careers.” (0:12:28)
“I just don't come to Tombstone for picnics” (0:29:44)
Loves old-school and 5 o'clocker action, Seagal, Stallone, Nick Cage, and movies that know exactly what they are. Can't stand over-explained worldbuilding or sequels that give the hero a known villain. A sucker for the Neeson comeback and for ranking things by era.
Stances
Taken is the perfect 5 o'clocker
Taken 2 is not better than the first
Neeson is the Apex Mountain of the movie
The first Taken works because there is no main villain
Humor: Deadpan nitpicking, escalating sports analogies, and long self-deprecating dad stories.
In their words
“I just like watching movies that know exactly what they are.” (0:32:10)
“I don't think it's a John Wick 2 situation where John Wick 2 is actually somehow better than John Wick one, or we could at least have the debate.” (0:42:12)
Loves big star-driven movies and sets the show's categories; adores the Wahlberg and Baldwin scenes, Boston flavor and the crazy cast what-ifs. Can't stand Nicholson's performance here, implausible plot points and the rat. A sucker for 'that guy' actors, Goodfellas and Boston details.
Stances
The Departed is a Hall of Famer because it is flawed and fun
Leo won the movie, Nicholson loses it
Costello should have been Pacino
Damon's Boston accent beats Wahlberg's
Scorsese's Stones fetish is funny
Humor: Deadpan nitpicking, jokes about plot holes and trivia, rapid mock-outrage.
In their words
“This is a perfect rewatchable because it is a great bad movie.” (0:12:23)
Calls Spielberg the greatest director ever but is skeptical of his late period and Munich. Loves Jaws, Raiders, and E.T. through his kids, and measures movies by whether kids can stay with them. Distrusts the calculating, career-minded side of Spielberg and Spielberg's DreamWorks hedging.
Stances
Spielberg's first 15 years are the greatest career stretch ever
His recent work is solid but not special
Spielberg is 'calculating' where Mann or Coppola are obsessive
Judges movies by whether his kids can watch them
Humor: Wry and teasing; leans on sports analogies (LeBron, Popovich) and bits like 'hit by a car in 1986'.
In their words
“if you just got hit by a car at the peak of your career, how would people remember you?” (0:51:08)
“I judge everything by my kids who have, you know, 21st century ADD with pop culture.” (1:00:09)
Their shows' recurring bits
Running bits, not opinions; a critic read aloud is cited, not present.
The Big Picture
Drafts: Hosts and guests draft films in rounds; every pick is a recommendation with an argument.
Hall of Fame: A star's or director's best, ranked and argued.
Countdowns: Ranked lists, top five or top ten.
The Rewatchables
Apex Mountain: The moment a star peaks; where on the mountain a performance sits.
Who Won the Movie: The hosts name the person who came out of the film best off.
The Ebert review: Roger Ebert's original review and star rating read aloud. Ebert is cited, never on the show.
Casting what-ifs: Who was almost cast, or who should have been.
Most rewatchable scene: The scene each host would stop on while flipping channels.
Aged best / aged worst: What holds up and what does not.
Picking Nits: The little things in a film the hosts love that they don't think totally work: the nits.
Double feature: The film each host would pair it with; a programming pick.
career (career arc):
Anthony Hopkins → Hannibal.
Hannibal and Red Dragon are late-60s money grabs; Hannibal didn't work for Bill because Hopkins is much older.
“Which didn't work for me because he's so much older than he was in Silence of the Lambs, but it's a prequel.”
theme (genre copy):
Color of Night → Basic Instinct.
Bruce Willis's Color of Night was another Basic Instinct era noir with a famous full-frontal moment.
“Everyone, remember Bruce Willis did that movie where he showed his penis?”
people (same actor):
Prelude to a Kiss → Malice.
Bill calls Prelude to a Kiss, not Malice or Edge, the Baldwin performance where he finally works as a leading man.
what-if (casting what-if):
The Edge → The Fugitive.
Harrison Ford, two years after The Fugitive, was the studio's dream lead; with him it becomes a $200 million movie.
“Like, if we get Harrison Ford, there's a $200000000 movie.”
what-if (casting what-if):
Harrison Ford → Anthony Hopkins.
If Ford had the Hopkins part the film changes because you blindly root for Ford.
“if Harrison Ford was in the Hopkins spot. First of all, it is, this is a different movie because now I'm rooting for, it's just in, you're blind rooting for Harrison Ford in every movie.”
theme (trope):
The Edge → Halloween H2O.
The rule of three, that the Black guy dies when three are left, was subverted by LL Cool J in H2O and Deep Blue Sea.
unmapped (famous death):
Deep Blue Sea → Samuel L. Jackson.
Sam Jackson's shock death was a promoted star dying, in a scene Van counts among the greats.
what-if (casting what-if):
Robert De Niro → Anthony Hopkins.
De Niro went far down the road for the Hopkins part, including a table read, but kept worrying about the bear.
unmapped (bear movie):
The Edge → The Revenant.
Bart the Bear versus the Revenant's bear: The Edge is the best mainstream bear movie; The Revenant is beautiful but too brutal to rewatch.
career (career peak):
Harold Perrineau → Lost.
Harold Perrineau's run on Oz, The Best Man and Lost is called his Apex Mountain; Lost the biggest audience.
“I mean, you could argue lost as probably as Apex mine.”
programming (double feature):
The Edge → The Ghost and the Darkness.
Ghost and the Darkness, from around the same time, is another animal-stalking pairing.
“You could also talk me to Ghost in the Darkness because this came right around this time or they're chasing the killer lions.”
unmapped (dramatization):
The Edge → What Just Happened.
Barry Levinson's 2008 film, drawn from Art Linson's book, fictionalizes the making of The Edge, including the beard fight and De Niro.
“They made a movie based on Art Linson's book, and a lot of it is about making this stupid movie and a big part about him not shaving the beard”
theme (genre):
Margin Call → Michael Clayton.
Simmons groups Margin Call with Michael Clayton, Shattered Glass and Moneyball as modern office thrillers.
industry (industry):
Margin Call → Contagion.
Simmons lists 2011 movies like Margin Call, Moneyball, Limitless, Contagion as the end of the pre-streaming era; today they'd be pitched as TV.
“this was kind of the end of the pre-streaming era.”
industry (industry):
Margin Call → The Big Short.
Simmons says Big Short hurt Margin Call by swallowing its oxygen, making it less rewatchable on cable.
“Big Short kind of swallowed up a little bit of the oxygen around this story.”
craft (craft):
Robert De Niro → Midnight Run.
Simmons calls De Niro the Michael Jordan of cigarette-smoking, citing Jimmy Conway and Jack Walsh in Midnight Run.
programming (programming):
Misery → The Silence of the Lambs.
Annie Wilkes and Hannibal Lecter came back to back, two great thriller characters in 12 months.
“Annie Wilkes and Hannibal Lecter, back to back ears.”
lineage (lineage):
Knocked Up → When Harry Met Sally.
Bill dates the rom-com boom as starting with When Harry Met Sally and running to the mid 2000s, with Knocked Up on the other side of the shift.
lineage (lineage):
Mean Girls → Knocked Up.
Bill thinks Mean Girls may have been the first to figure out 'more funny than romantic, but also having the romance'.
“I feel like mean girls might have been the 1st one that figured out.”
programming (programming):
Knocked Up → Mean Girls.
Bill groups Knocked Up with Mean Girls, 40-Year-Old Virgin, Wedding Crashers, Sarah Marshall and Bridesmaids as the 'com-rom' cycle.
“Mean girls, 40 year old virgin, wedding crashers, knocked up, Sarah Marshall, EZA bridesmaids.”
lineage (lineage):
Starting Over → Knocked Up.
Bill offers Starting Over (Burt Reynolds, a love triangle in Boston) as an early prototype of Apatow movies.
“It's got, it feels like a very early prototype of these Apatow movies.”
fun, about
Craig Kilborn:
Kilborn appears in both aged-the-best and aged-the-worst: a thrill to see him, but visibly terrified, reading lines like Daily Show jokes; he gets the Al Martino (worst actor) award.
“He's in 2 scenes, and then he crashes in the closing credits.”
fun, about
Old School:
Whole-soundtrack rundown: Papered Up, Dust in the Wind, Hungry Like the Wolf, Sound of Silence, Total Eclipse of the Heart, Metallica; Whitesnake's 'Here I Go Again' is played four times.
fun, about
Old School 2 (unmade sequel script):
A 2006 sequel script, 'Old School Dose', about an aging frat on spring break, was written by Scott Armstrong and refused by Ferrell and Vaughn as too repetitive; Luke Wilson said in 2016 he would do it.
“Luke Wilson was game saying, I, of course, would do it at the drop of a hat.”
fun, about
Will Ferrell:
Ferrell really ran naked in the streaking sequence, horrifying locals at a 24-hour gym; the second part filmed during the Snoop performance and he needed a drink first.
“In the streaking sequence, Will Ferrell ran naked for real.”
fun, about
Patrick Cranshaw:
Blue was played by Patrick Cranshaw, a 50-year working actor who was the sheriff in all the Air Bud movies and died about four years after the film.
“although I will say he played the sheriff in all the Airbud movies.”
fun, about
Old School:
Half-ass internet research: the frat house is a real Pasadena house on Bushnell Avenue, also used in Back to the Future, Back to the Future Part II, and Teen Wolf. Bill stumps the others with a quiz.
fun, about
Luke Wilson:
Chris Ryan's hot take that Luke Wilson was in the Harrison Ford zone and could have been an action star becomes a running bit; the others call it among the worst takes ever and joke about a Luke Wilson Fugitive.
fun, about
Patrick Fischler:
Joey Pants Award: the Mad Men guy, Piven's henchman, is Patrick Fischler; they mention Patrick Adams, star of Suits, playing guitar during Dust in the Wind as an alternate.
“That's how you win the Joey Pants Award, and I have no idea what your name is.”
fun, about
Old School:
Bill's wedding-toast tangent: he wants a TV show or YouTube channel of brutal best-man speeches and tells of watching a wedding from a Torrey Pines hotel balcony with a bottle of wine.
fun, about
Old School:
Unanswerable question: who is the 2019 Craig Kilborn? Suggestions include Logan Paul, Joe Buck, Gus Johnson, Jim Nantz, Jeff Van Gundy, Trevor Noah, and Jalen Rose.
fun, about
Tombstone:
Most rewatchable scene candidates: the 'Hell's coming with me' scene and killing montage, the creek shootout, and Kilmer vs Biehn.
“That scene, followed by a montage of just them killing people.”
fun, about
George P. Cosmatos:
Running joke after the ghost-director story: someone claims credit for the role swap between Biehn and Rooker now that Cosmatos is dead.
“But I was the one who told him to switch roles with Michael Riffle, Michael Bean.”
fun, about
Taken:
Simmons's dad, a school superintendent near Boston, called action movies a 5 o'clocker: the 5 o'clock showing he caught on the way home to turn his brain off. Taken is called the quintessential 5 o'clocker.
“I would say taken is the quintessential 5 o'clocker.”
fun, about
Taken:
Simmons remembers the trailer, which was nearly the whole phone speech, airing between the second and third quarter of a Texans-Pats game. He asked: what is this, where can I see this.
“you're like what? What is this? Where can I see this?”
fun, about
Liam Neeson:
Pre-Taken Neeson was Schindler, Kinsey, Michael Collins, Woody Allen and Scorsese movies, so no one expected karate in Paris. His 6'4" frame matters more than you notice because films usually make everyone look the same size.
“This was not somebody we expected to see like doing karate in Paris.”
fun, about
Taken:
The perfect 5 o'clocker can be described in five words or less: Liam Neeson, daughter gets taken. Neeson's later films do the same: wilderness wolves, airplane, train conspiracy.
“I love action movies where you can describe the plot in 5 words or less.”
fun, about
Taken:
The movie's biggest lesson, per the hosts: don't let your daughter go to Europe unless you're there, and don't sit behind a desk or you'll forget the weight of a gun.
“And the biggest lesson of this movie is you get soft behind a desk.”
fun, about
Taken:
Aged worst: every non-American foreigner is a kidnapper, and two teenage girls lying to their parents to follow U2 around Europe in 2008, when the band was in their late 50s. Simmons's wife's counter: every young white woman loves U2.
fun, about
Taken:
Nitpick: every other kidnapped woman is a heroin zombie, but Kim is out of it only a little, then bounces back in two weeks, cheery, with no emotional distress, ready for a pop-star singing lesson.
fun, about
Liam Neeson:
Neeson expected Taken to go straight to video and spent four months in Paris learning karate. Neeson also says American parents thanked him and he tells them the danger was exaggerated and to travel more.
“Liam Neeson expected this movie to go straight to video.”
fun, about
Famke Janssen:
Trivia from internet research: Janssen, who played the incompetent ex-wife, now serves as a Goodwill Ambassador for the UN office on drugs and crime, inspired by Taken.
“She now serves as the Goodwill Ambassador for the United Nations office on drugs and crime.”
fun, about
Bill Simmons:
Simmons's worst parenting moment: while watching Kevin Durant at Texas, his toddler Zoe walked out the open front door at night, and a stranger in a stopped car brought her back.
“I'm like, I can't, but Kevin Durant has given it to AC.”
fun, about
Maggie Grace:
Reportedly trained by running coach Alberto Salazar to run like a younger girl. Both hosts note she runs like a toddler and acts nine at seventeen, though she was older than the role.
“she very clearly runs like a toddler in the movie.”
fun, about
Taken:
Body count debate: Brian kills 31 people, or 35. Apex Mountain goes to Neeson for becoming an action star in his mid-50s, and to Maggie Grace, for whom it never got better than this.
“You became an action movie and your action movie star in your mid-50s.”
fun, about
Taken:
Wrong-day question: the pop-star assassin picked the one night Brian guarded her, but the sheik, who just bought the wrong daughter, had the worst luck of all.
fun, about
Taken:
Nitpicks: Jean-Claude carries an unwrapped baguette; the kidnappers left the destroyed phone behind but locked the door; Neeson recognizes Marco's voice from two words, good luck.
“Can you really recognize a specific Albanian's voice just by having them repeat the words good luck?”
fun, about
Taken:
Best quotes besides the speech: it's a flesh wound; now's not the time for dick measuring, Stuart; and the line about forgetting the weight in the hand of a gun. The stepdad Stuart did nothing but supply the jet.
“Now's not the time for dick measuring, Stuart. Classic.”
fun, about
Taken:
The elaborate auction with red buttons probably does not exist as portrayed; Simmons jokes about a sex-slave auction draft guide. Movie auctions are always downstairs, as in Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom's dinosaur auction.
fun, about
Taken:
Who won the movie: Neeson, and the 5 o'clocker itself, which streaming services will now make and own, producing many more Taken-style movies, like Braven.
“That's that's way more of an insightful thing than I was expecting to happen on this taken podcast.”
fun, about
The Departed:
Casting what-ifs: Pitt (producer) was Damon's part, Liotta then Leary for Dignam, Pacino for Costello, De Niro for Sheen's part, Gibson for Baldwin's.
“Brad Pitt was supposed to be Damon's part dropped out, ended up producing the movie.”
fun, about
The Departed:
Worst-aged plot point winner: Damon texting a long message from inside his pocket on a flip phone, the triple crown of texting.
fun, about
Mark Boone Junior:
That Guy Award: Boggs from Shawshank, who led the sisters, plays Delahunt here; Simmons backs Kevin Corrigan as Costigan's cousin.
“Boggs from Shawshank has a key role in this movie.”
fun, about
Jack Nicholson:
Half-assed research: Nicholson reportedly refused to wear a Red Sox hat and banned Celtics gear on the set, and he and Ray Winstone did not get along.
“Nicholson refused to wear a Red Sox hat during the filming and banned all Celtic Cats on the set.”
fun, about
Martin Sheen:
Idea: keep Sheen's hangdog acting but cut to reaction shots when he talks and dub in the accent coach, as supposedly done on Ozark.
“I almost think they should have done this from Martin Sheen.”
fun, about
The Departed:
The film's biggest ridiculous plot points: Leo's roof plan, the invented Boston State House apartment view, the rat on the balcony.
“Why didn't anyone talk Scorsese out of the rat on the balcony at the tail end?”
fun, about
The Departed:
Best lines: cranberry juice, 'Maybe, maybe not', 'We all are. Let's act accordingly', and 'The world needs plenty of bartenders. 2 weeks with pay.'
“And then uh, the world needs plenty of bartenders.”
fun, about
Mark Wahlberg:
Rule of A-Listers: when someone gets punched, it evens out later. Damon punched Wahlberg, who got payback by shooting him at the end.
“the rule of A-Listers is that if somebody gets punched, you get to punt, there's it always ends even.”
fun, about
Saving Private Ryan:
Bill saw it in a full theater in Boston; people were shaking when the barrage calmed down, like witnessing a car crash.