Press-screening veteran who found Winter Soldier merely fine at release; likes political-thriller texture and Redford's calm, character acting. Dislikes Marvel villains who justify genocide with logic. Loves Samuel L. Jackson, spy-game lineage and the Russos' TV pilots.
Stances
Looks up facts (the computer guy)
Winter Soldier was a nonplus at release but improves on rewatch
Redford's underplaying is the movie's best asset
Regrets Civil War stops being a Captain America film
Humor: Dry deadpan asides, mock-serious pedantry and a willingness to play along with Griffin's bits.
In their words
“This is the 1st Marvel movie I started press screening.” (0:02:54)
Loves Sif, mythology, the practical-looking gold Asgard and the sibling story between Thor and Loki. Hates the first Thor and likes Dark World far more than Ragnarok. A sucker for spaceships and gap-toothed actors.
Stances
Dark World was the movie where Feige took over
Doctor Strange fails on comedy
Spaceships make any movie better
Humor: Deadpan escalation and gross-out one-liners, throwing a pillow to steer the room.
Also calls Iron Man 3 his favorite MCU film; a critic who tracks box office, awards ballots, contracts and Hollywood history. Likes character actors, Shane Black wit and clean action stakes. Sucker for ensemble casts and set-up/payoff.
Stances
Iron Man 3 is the best-structured sequel because it answers the previous film
The one flaw is the rushed Killian monologue and the sidelined Maya
Tony Stark should have ended here
Marvel's Atlanta wet-cement look is a problem
Humor: Dry, dead-pan and confidently over-informed, then deflates himself with a dumb aside.
In their words
“This is how you do a sequel.” (0:41:23)
“It's a really good 3rd movie.” (2:10:08)
“Anyone who dares criticize it, you know, is my enemy and I will meet them on the field of glory.” (0:56:30)
Treats Avengers as a model for plotted ensemble blockbusters; loves Samuel L. Jackson and Hulk, wants Marvel's cinematic conveyor belt held up to Justice League. Knows Hollywood trivia, box-office figures. Dislikes Man of Steel's destruction and Age of Ultron's continuity.
Stances
This is one of the best-structured blockbusters
The film looks cheap while being expensive
Age of Ultron can't be a sequel to this one
Jackson is undervalued
Humor: Dry, ironic, quick with box-office game-show bits and wry commentary on his own travel plans.
In their words
“I think this movie looks kind of cheap while being very expensive.” (0:03:02)
“Avengers 2 can't be a sequel to Avengers one. It has to be a sequel to 5 other moments.” (1:39:42)
He loves Marvel comics lore, the Golden and Silver Age versions of the characters, and period production design. He is a sucker for ensemble character actors like Neal McDonough and Tommy Lee Jones. He is dismissive of the movie's generic last third and of unearned endings.
Stances
The first third is perfect, the second solid, the third perfunctory
The ending teaser for Avengers cheapens the movie
The classic Bucky death was better than the film's
Humor: Dry deadpan asides and physical bits like rocking the couch for Tommy Lee Jones.
In their words
“The 1st 3rd is perfect.” (0:51:45)
“I think the 3rd 3rd is, you know, a little perfunctory.” (0:51:48)
The comics and film-history reader: knows Thor lore (Straczynski, Simonson), casting and development history, and Marvel's behind-the-scenes politics. Loves Hopkins at ease, Branagh as ham, the hammer-return sequence and the Patrick Doyle score. Dislikes chaos cinema and the Marvel pipeline's flat look.
Stances
Branagh is a hammy director he likes, but weak at action
Marvel's side-character sprawl hurts unfocused ensemble movies
Dark World is a better brother movie
Whedon over-kills characters
Humor: Deadpan fact-drops and interruptions that deflate Griffin's bits.
In their words
“I'm a big fan of Kenneth Bran as a director.” (0:18:10)
Film-history minded and well versed in studio politics (Feige, Perlmutter); likes Wes Anderson books but not Isle of Dogs. Dislikes hollow universe-building. Loves Galaxy Quest and Rickman.
Stances
Nick Fury's cameo derails the movie
Favreau lost The Avengers by making this film
Universe-building should serve story
Humor: Dry, mocking asides with pop-culture comparisons.
A Marvel and Hulk comics reader (Rick Jones, Peter David, Greg Pak) who loves Ang Lee's Hulk and trusts Tim Roth as the only good performance; hates bad CGI and generic Europa Corp action.
Stances
This film is the worst early MCU entry
Marvel quality control is fast food
Unleashed is the best Europa Corp film
Humor: Blunt put-downs and long, detailed story retellings, such as the Electro origin.
In their words
“Rick, you know, man, you got to read your 60s Marvel.” (0:17:51)
“Unleashed is my favorite of the Europa.” (0:11:09)
Pro-Iron Man, loves Downey's improvisational energy, Gwyneth Paltrow and Jeff Bridges' performances, and the Marvel comics of the 60s; dislikes Terrence Howard and generic Marvel scores. Cares about industry business details.
Stances
Iron Man is the best of the early Marvel films
Bridges is underrated as a Marvel villain
Hulk and later Marvel films feel generic
Humor: Self-deprecating New York landlord and apartment bits, deadpan Bill Maher mock-defense.
Attributions to David are low confidence because the transcript has no speaker labels. He argues about Nicholson's box office record, tracks the Oscar races of the era, and has a Transformers opinion (3 is a masterpiece, per a speaker who may be him). He is skeptical of Haunted Mansion.
Stances
Nicholson was not guaranteed money in the bank before this film (speaker uncertain)
Early-2000s Oscar races were set pieces worth remembering (speaker uncertain)
Humor: Dry corrections and numbers, plus a playful challenge to the guest's choices.
In their words
“Well, I'm going to dispute you on Jack being money in the bank.” (0:03:28)
“it did open to 16000000 and finished at 124” (1:52:03)
Box-office and awards nerd; loves Michelle Yeoh and the craft of fight choreography; is dismissive of Rush Hour as a boring sweaty cop movie and of Gladiator winning. A sucker for trivia and Oscar-night lore.
Stances
CTHD's release was a careful balancing of global audiences
Oscar race lore matters
Gladiator winning was weird
Humor: Dry, precise, and deadpan fact-bombs that undercut sillier riffs.
In their words
“Rush hour 2 is still the 4th biggest opening in August.” (0:46:50)
“Rush Hour is kind of a boring, sweaty cop movie.” (0:47:12)
Defends Hulk, owns Ice Storm on DVD and Criterion, and likes facts, production history and box-office context. Skeptical of easy characterization such as Weaver's.
Stances
Ice Storm gets cold weather as Do the Right Thing gets hot weather
Weaver's role feels easy; Lee's film is not about a craze
Reads out box-office top five in the closing game
Humor: Deadpan quiz-master and wry riffs on casting and careers.
In their words
“I think this movie gets cold weather as right as do the right thing gets hot weather.” (0:10:53)
“I mean, this podcast is just an excuse for me to buy Blu-rays.” (0:36:45)
Adores Richard Jenkins and critic-style takes; reads Blue Steel as a Bigelow B-picture that unifies her style. Loves a good box-office trivia quiz. Sucker for actor-career arcs.
Stances
Blue Steel is better than Point Break
Jenkins's entrance shifts the film into a representational register
Went in with the Spanish original in his head and thinks Vanilla Sky is essentially a remake of it with American excess added. Likes the genre-inflected last act more than the first half but rates the whole C plus. Sucker for British film magazine nostalgia.
Stances
The film is a remake of Abre los ojos with added Crowe preciousness
C plus, three out of five
Wants the sci-fi explained earlier
Humor: Dry, nitpicky, pushes catchphrase bits like 'island woman' and 'blowjob lady'.
In their words
“Yeah, C plus.” (1:55:12)
“I was a dedicated empire magazine reader.” (0:27:30)
“I think this movie's problem is it doesn't introduce it earlier enough.” (1:37:39)
Attribution is low-confidence. One host insists films should stand on their own merits, hates behind-the-scenes theorizing and complaining nerds, and is a fan of Admiral Piett. Likes the first 40 minutes at Jabba's palace; critical of Leia's handling and the Yoda deathbed scene.
Stances
Films should stand on their own merits
Don't read behind-the-scenes lore into the movie
The Jabba sequence is the best part; the Ewoks overstay
Humor: Dry deflation of the other host's rants and Empire workplace-comedy pitches.
In their words
“I think films should stand on their own merits.” (0:32:22)
“I hate nerds and they're always complaining.” (0:30:51)
Their shows' recurring bits
Running bits, not opinions; a critic read aloud is cited, not present.
The Big Picture
Drafts: Hosts and guests draft films in rounds; every pick is a recommendation with an argument.
Hall of Fame: A star's or director's best, ranked and argued.
Countdowns: Ranked lists, top five or top ten.
Blank Check with Griffin & David
The box office game: Guessing the film's opening weekend and what it was up against.
The sung theme: "Blank Check with Griffin and David", sung; the transcriber garbles it.
Their claims
Showing 501–600 of 1,091 claims.
unmapped (same fetish):
You're the Worst (TV) → The Game.
The only other depiction of findom the speaker has seen is You're the Worst.
“The only time I've ever seen that depicted is you're the worst has a big findom plot.”
industry (release strategy):
Seven → Kiss the Girls.
Se7en was a September release sold as a nasty genre movie, like Kiss the Girls and later Freeman thrillers.
“in the same vein in terms of its release strategy is like, Kiss the girls.”
industry (studio hiring pattern):
Jean-Pierre Jeunet → Vincent Ward.
Fox later hired Jeunet for Resurrection the same way it hired Ward: a unique artistic vision, just have a meeting.
“which is clearly what they did with Jhene later too, where they're just sort of like, well, this guy has a unique artistic vision.”
unmapped (concept merged in):
Vincent Ward → Alien 3.
The film is built from Ward's monk concept pushed together with the prison planet; his only surviving credit is story.
“they mishing up the monks with the prison planet, they turn the monks into prisoners, but they're kind of religious.”
people (composer comparison):
Elliot Goldenthal → Danny Elfman.
In the 90s Goldenthal was becoming an unconventional blockbuster composer, Elfman style.
“becoming sort of Alfman style, an unconventional blockbuster composer”
people (composer brief):
Elliot Goldenthal → David Fincher.
Goldenthal says Fincher wanted the audience to feel completely fucked within five minutes with no hope.
“Fincher told him he wanted him, you to feel, you the audience, to feel you were completely fucked within 5 minutes and that there is no hope completely.”
career (career):
Henry Selick → Tim Burton.
Burton said Selick was the only CalArts student who moved between the experimental and character-animation camps.
“Burton said that Selleck was the only guy in his time who actually coexisted between the 2 camps.”
industry (industry):
The Fox and the Hound → Don Bluth.
Fox and the Hound is the fulcrum of American animation: Bluth's walkout and the CalArts generation's disillusion.
“that movie is the real fulcum point of American animation in its own weird way”
contrast (contrast):
Henry Selick → Richard Williams.
Selick's insistence on live-action camera moves is like Williams hand-drawing his camera movement.
“much like Richard Williams being like, I'll fucking hand draw the camera movement”
contrast (contrast):
The Nightmare Before Christmas → Aladdin.
Disney princess films open with an I-want song; Jack's opening is a triumph followed by unexplained ennui.
“the Disney princess movies of this time have the big, I want song, right?”
industry (industry):
The Nightmare Before Christmas → Aardman.
Aardman is the one studio working consistently in stop motion with a different tone from Nightmare's creepiness.
“Ardaman is the only studio that's been able to work consistently at a high level and stop motion and do something totally different tonally.”
theme (King-like author character):
Mike Flanagan → The Haunting of Hill House.
Hill House has a character who becomes a paperback author very similar to King.
“one of the characters becomes like a, like, an author of, like, paperback, like, novels very similar to King.”
unmapped (Netflix hit gave Flanagan the job):
The Haunting of Hill House → Doctor Sleep.
The speakers guess the hit Netflix King adaptation and Hill House, after Oculus and Ouija, are why Flanagan got Doctor Sleep.
“And then I think it really is the Geralds game thing.”
unmapped (restored ending):
The Shining (King's novel) → Doctor Sleep.
Flanagan pitched going back to the Overlook as a means to restore the burn-down ending of King's book, which won King over.
“he said, I'm going to go back to the Overlook, but as means to an end to restore your ending.”
unmapped (King's disavowal):
Doctor Sleep (King's novel) → The Shining.
King's sequel book, speakers say, goes out of its way to say Kubrick's movie did not happen.
“it feels like he's even, you know, trying in the book to be like, and that movie didn't happen, FYI”
craft (visual echo):
Doctor Sleep → The Shining.
The hospice office is composed like the Overlook interview scene, reversed so the boss helps instead of dooms.
“It's composed like the exact same way as that 1st interview sequence in the original film.”
lineage (legacy sequel (contrast)):
Ghostbusters: Afterlife → Doctor Sleep.
Afterlife is eager to relive the first movie for no reason; Doctor Sleep avoids the original for as long as it can, so its return is earned.
“Ghostbusters Afterlife is a perfect example of the movie is so eager to relive the 1st movie”
lineage (ripoff):
Black Adam → Terminator 2: Judgment Day.
The Black Adam kid is called a straight John Connor ripoff, down to the skateboard and the catchphrase coaching.
unmapped (subversion):
Full Metal Jacket → Major Payne.
The answer to how to subvert the drill-sergeant movie is to do it with children, as in Major Payne.
career (unmade project taken up):
Stanley Kubrick → Steven Spielberg.
Kubrick could not make A.I. because technology was not ready; Spielberg eventually did.
“which obviously Steven Spielberg eventually makes.”
people (co-writer carried over):
Michael Herr → Full Metal Jacket.
Kubrick kept Herr, the writer from one piece of material, to help adapt a different one.
“Yeah, so he sort of absorbs the writer from one piece of material to help them adapt a different piece of material.”
programming (thematic pairing):
The Woman King → Full Metal Jacket.
Both films are about how much you have to break your brain to survive training for war.
“But it's the thing that like Woman King goes into a lot as well of like, how much you have to break your brain to survive an environment like this, right?”
theme (same location instruction):
Stanley Kubrick → Ken Adam.
Kubrick told Ken Adam to find every location within 20 miles of his home, as on Barry Lyndon.
“Which was basically the same thing he told him for Barry Lyndon”
industry (Oscar attention):
A Clockwork Orange → Full Metal Jacket.
Clockwork Orange got Oscar attention, but The Shining, Full Metal Jacket and Eyes Wide Shut were ignored.
“obviously, the shining full metal jacket and eyes wide shut are all basically ignored by the Oscars.”
people (same actor, opposite bodies):
Full Metal Jacket → Adventures in Babysitting.
D'Onofrio is Pyle and a Thor-lookalike beefcake in two films opening the same summer.
“Dino Frio is on, you know, different screens in your multiplex in completely different bodies.”
people (unrealized collaboration):
Paddy Chayefsky → Stanley Kubrick.
Kubrick was one of only three people who met to direct Network, but he and Chayefsky never clicked.
“Kubrick was like one of only 3 people who even met to direct that movie.”
fun, about
The Judge:
The judge's tell is that he forgets his bailiff's name; the hosts say it is set up in the first scene and is open and shut at trial, yet they convict him anyway.
“The bailiff who he's had at his side for like 30 years.”
fun, about
Warner Bros.:
The Judge's tornado father-son fight is a Man of Steel homage, so Warner Bros. is the go-to studio for father-and-son tornado fights.
“Warner Brothers has become the go to studios for tornado fights.”
fun, about
Robert Downey Jr.:
Pitch to Downey for an Oscar: play Buster Keaton, whose voice was a gravelly surprise after MGM made him do talkies with Jimmy Durante.
fun, about
Joel Kinnaman:
Kinnaman said his dad, an American soldier, deserted during Vietnam and ended up in Sweden; he spoke English with his dad and Swedish with his mom.
“I spoke English with my dad in Swedish with my mom.”
fun, about
RoboCop (2014) - suit:
The first suit reveal got an awful response a week or two into filming, so the production panicked and had two weeks to build a second, 80s-style suit that could fit only 15 to 20 minutes of the film.
“the production panicked when the 1st photos came out and the response was so bad”
fun, about
Jackie Earle Haley:
Haley told the host while filming The Tick that he was proud of this performance because it was a different thing he doesn't usually get.
fun, about
RoboCop (2014) - ending:
The final showdown is Keaton holding the wife and son at gunpoint on a rooftop helipad to get away in a helicopter.
“The final showdown of this movie is Michael Keaton holding Alex Murphy's wife and sonic gunpoint on the rooftop helipad.”
fun, about
Samuel L. Jackson:
The film ends with Jackson saying good night; the host jokes that his favorite part of his movies is when he doesn't say motherfucker.
“It's my favorite part of his movies is when he doesn't say motherfucker.”
fun, about
RoboCop (2014) - sequel:
Neill Blomkamp was attached to a sequel and Neumeier and Miner came back with an old-man script called RoboCop Returns; it never happened.
fun, about
Six Men Getting Sick:
Lynch's first proper short is a one-minute film of casts of Jack Fisk's head throwing up; it earned him a $1000 grant.
“It's a one minute film of these like weird casts of Jack Fisk's head throwing up.”
fun, about
Eraserhead:
After rejections from Cannes' Directors' Fortnight and the New York Film Festival, a bad Variety review at Filmex led Lynch to cut about 20 minutes.
“Lynch then cuts about 20 minutes out of the movie.”
fun, about
Andrew Kevin Walker:
Fincher pitched Walker a five-chapter plan for The Killer in 2008, nothing happened for ten years, then in 2018 he recited it back word for word and said he was set up at Netflix. Walker told this at the Q&A.
“And then 2018, he goes, do you remember that killer thing?”
fun, about
Michael Fassbender:
Halfway through the shoot Fassbender told Fincher he finally got it: precision modeling, holding a head position for long takes.
fun, about
Erik Messerschmidt:
Michael Mann told the speaker he likes Messerschmidt (Gone Girl's gaffer, now DP on Ferrari) because cinematography is all lighting.
“to me, cinematography is all lighting and no one understands lighting anymore.”
fun, about
The Social Network:
The 166-page script was too long for Sony; Fincher and Sorkin read it aloud against a stopwatch and it came out at two hours.
“And Fincher was like, you and me are going to sit down and read the script.”
fun, about
Armie Hammer:
The twin effect (Hammer plus Josh Pence's body) is called one of Fincher's most impressive technical feats, though the 4K shows a little deep-fake tracking on big moves.
“honestly, maybe one of the most impressive things Fincher has ever done technically.”
fun, about
Rick Springfield:
Springfield owns one of the great Star Wars action figure collections, though by his own admission he is more a figure fan than a movie fan; the hosts tie it to Fincher's Return of the Jedi credit.
“Rick Springfield has one of the greatest Star Wars action figure collections in the world.”
fun, about
David Fincher:
A host says Fincher thinks the death of the music video cost a generation of visually distinctive filmmakers their training ground.
“the death of the music video has really been at the expense of a new generation of visually distinctive filmmakers coming up.”
fun, about
Nicole Kidman:
If Fincher had shut the film down after Kidman's injury, the insurance would have paid out a profit.
“They basically, I mean, the numbers I saw, there was some sort of calculation of like, if they had shut the movie down and just never started filming again, they would have made $3000000 off the insurance.”
fun, about
The Game:
Fincher on Douglas, as read from the dossier: the story is a little prurient and sadistic because you enjoy the central character's suffering, and nobody embraces that as eagerly as Douglas.
“You want to see him learn a lesson, and nobody embraces that quite as eagerly as Michael Douglas.”
fun, about
The Sky Is Falling (unmade):
Fincher's post-Se7en idea: two clerics on a dig find proof that God is dead and are hunted by a terminally ill hitman.
“Two clerics on an archaeological dig, discover proof that God is actually dead.”
fun, about
The Game:
Fincher wanted the audience to have nothing to hold on to; he calls it a movie about movies, where the protagonist doesn't know how to act like a movie star.
fun, about
Jodie Foster:
She wanted to play the waitress; Fincher said she was too famous; she suggested sister, then daughter, then Douglas refused to play her father; she was written out and sued.
“She then filed a huge lawsuit saying she was supposed to be in it.”
fun, about
The Game:
Not in print for a long time (a Polygram issue, per a host); the Criterion Blu-ray in 2012 carried features shot during production for Criterion.
“This is a movie that was like not in print for a very long time.”
fun, about
The Full Monty:
At 5 weeks in 387 theaters it was on its way to a best picture nomination; one host picked it down the ballot at an Oscar party against Titanic.
fun, about
Panic Room:
The three-disc Panic Room DVD is called the most comprehensive special-feature package for any movie ever, and the movie is not on Blu-ray.
“peak DVD Fincher being like every single 2nd of this will be documented.”
fun, about
Jordan Cronenweth:
The first cinematographer was diagnosed with Parkinson's weeks in, barely shot anything, but set the look; Alex Thomson took over, and the son later became Fincher's DP.
“He barely shot anything, but he set the look that then was continued.”
fun, about
Henry Selick:
Selick on Burton: five set visits in two years, 8 to 10 hours total; 'it was like me adapting a book that was never actually written.'
“it was like me adapting a book that was never actually written.”
fun, about
Tim Burton:
Burton and Selick fought over the Oogie ending (Scooby-Doo reveal that he's Finkelstein); the fight reportedly ruined an editing bay.
“Selleck wanted the ending to be that Oogie Boogie was actually Dr. Finkelstein in disguise.”
fun, about
Henry Selick:
1994 Sight and Sound quote read to close: audiences are more open than Hollywood imagines; the stranger the imagery, the straighter the story.
“But the audience is more open than Hollywood imagines.”
fun, about
Henry Thomas / Doctor Sleep:
Henry Thomas, Elliott from E.T., plays Jack Torrance in the bar scene, shot in profile with his chin down; the host did not recognize him until the credits.
“And then somehow the moment he comes on screen and the entire scene, extended scene is all done from profile.”
fun, about
Ewan McGregor / The Island:
A studio exec threw The Island under the bus: the mistake was hiring the stars of tomorrow rather than the stars of today.
“the mistake we made was hiring the stars of tomorrow rather than the stars of today.”
fun, about
Rebecca Ferguson:
A host notices her Irish accent slips in on purpose, since Rose has lived thousands of years and the roots are nearly gone.
“She is choosing to have an Irish accent slip in sometime, because the point is this character has been alive for 1000s of years.”
fun, about
Doctor Sleep:
In the baseball scene a sideline parent is the actor who played Danny in The Shining, now a school teacher who was excited to do it.