The Big Picture: The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims

Published 2022-10-04; 1:49:04 by the feed.

As extracted (engineer-sonnet-2026-10-13)

The extraction calls the show “The Big Picture (The Ringer)” and the episode “The Great 'Avatar' Debate with Blank Check's Griffin Newman and David Sims”.

Hosts: Sean Fennessey. Guests: Griffin Newman, David Sims, Bobby Wagner (Big Picture producer, in the room).

Subject films: Avatar (2009), Avatar: The Way of Water.

On the transcript: No speaker labels; Griffin and David are hard to separate except for Atlantic-article lines (David). Bobby Wagner, the producer, is also present and speaks. Amanda Dobbins is not in the room. Ads inside the transcript are ignored.

Films that came up

Claims (71)

career (career): James Cameron → George Lucas. Blank Check got started trying to make sense of Lucas and what success did to him.
“we realized what was really interesting to us was trying to make sense of George Lucas”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:03:56 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
career (career): James Cameron → M. Night Shyamalan. Blank Check's first three series were Shyamalan, the Wachowskis and Cameron Crowe, all with a rise and expensive follies arc.
“And we did, the 1st 3 series we did were Shyamalan, the Wachowskis, and Cameron Crowe.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:05:04 · unknown (0.50 sure it was them)
career (career): James Cameron → Stanley Kubrick. Kubrick, Blank Check's current series, is most like Cameron in not missing when he gets going.
“Who's more similar to Cameron and like when he gets going, he pretty much doesn't miss.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:06:00 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
career (career): James Cameron → Arnold Schwarzenegger. Cameron iconographed Arnold, among other leading players he elevated.
“this is the man who portrayed Ripley and the Terminator and who increasingly iconographed Arnold Schwarzenegger.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:12:33 · Sean Fennessey (0.80 sure it was them)
craft (craft): Avatar → Aliens. Cameron gave Avatar a Hudson-type scene-stealer as a fifth lead, but this cast is less iconic.
“Cameron has given us like a Hudson as the 5th lead of your movie”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:14:17 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
people (people): Avatar → Michelle Rodriguez. Rewatching, the whole Avatar cast is good, including Rodriguez and Joel David Moore.
“When you rewatch it, you are like, everyone in this is good.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:14:29 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
craft (craft): Avatar → Aliens. Avatar's side characters are fun but not as indelible as Aliens' Marines.
“It's not like in aliens where you're like the 15th guy in aliens.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:14:43 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
what-if (what-if): Avatar → Matt Damon. Damon was offered the lead role of Jake Sully, which Sam Worthington ended up playing.
“Matt Damon famously was offered the role of Jake Sully, which Sam Worthington eventually portrayed.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:15:23 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)
career (career): Matt Damon → The Bourne films. Damon cited his Bourne commitment as the reason he turned down Avatar.
“Apparently he cited his ongoing commitment to the Bourne films as the reason why he ultimately didn't take this, right?”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:16:16 · Sean Fennessey (0.80 sure it was them)
career (career): Matt Damon → The Great Wall. Damon took the Great Wall for the same reasons he supposedly gave for passing on Cameron.
“But he did it for all the reasons that he said he didn't work with James Cameron.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:16:48 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
what-if (what-if): Matt Damon → The Departed. If Damon had spent the mid-2000s on Avatar he might not have been in The Departed.
“maybe he's not in the departed.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:18:55 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
what-if (what-if): Matt Damon → True Grit. Missing True Grit would have been the real cost of Damon making Avatar.
“But then if he's not in true grit.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:19:08 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
career (career): Matt Damon → Interstellar. Interstellar is named as the capper to Damon's run as a supporting actor.
“interstellar being the sort of like beautiful capper to that, right?”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:19:45 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
verdict (verdict): Matt Damon → Matt Damon. Posed as a recurring Blank Check bit: is Damon better as a supporting actor than a lead.
“is Matt Damon secretly a better supporting actor than he is a leading man?”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:19:49 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
what-if (what-if): Avatar → Jake Gyllenhaal. Other movie-star options for Jake Sully were considered after Damon said no.
“is it a Gyllenhaal, do you get someone who's at that level, there were a couple people in the mix”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:20:27 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
career (career): James Cameron → Leonardo DiCaprio. Cameron helped launch Leo.
“he helped launch Leo.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:21:05 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
career (career): James Cameron → Sigourney Weaver. Cameron elevated Sigourney Weaver.
“He elevated Sigourney, even.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:21:13 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
career (career): James Cameron → Linda Hamilton. Cameron is credited with elevating Linda Hamilton too.
“Yeah, and Linda Hamilton.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:21:14 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
verdict (verdict): James Cameron → M. Night Shyamalan. Avatar is a cilantro movie like late-period Shyamalan: you either get it or cannot stand it.
“where it's like he's kind of become a cilantro filmmaker”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:24:06 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
verdict (verdict): Avatar → M. Night Shyamalan. Avatar is both achingly sincere and goofy, so some viewers tap out in the first ten minutes.
“And Avatar is both so achingly sincere and so goofy”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:24:43 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
lineage (lineage): Avatar → Edgar Rice Burroughs. Cameron's Avatar treatment drew on childhood sci-fi reading, Burroughs and Haggard.
“drawing inspiration from, quote, every single science fiction book that he had read in his childhood, and also Edgar Rice Burroughs, H. Rider Haggard.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:26:06 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)
lineage (lineage): Avatar → John Carter of Mars. Avatar reads like a John Carter of Mars style story.
“Yeah, it's very like John Carter of Mars or whatever.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:26:24 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
craft (craft): Avatar → Gollum. Cameron's 1996 synthetic-actors claim sounded stupid until Gollum arrived.
“And then, I mean, we're like a couple years away from Gollum at this point.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:26:54 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
lineage (lineage): James Cameron → George Lucas. Cameron, like Lucas, conceived a new way to make movies and took years doing it.
“and not unlike Lucas, another lodestar for your show.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:27:18 · Sean Fennessey (0.70 sure it was them)
career (career): James Cameron → Francis Ford Coppola. Cameron's long-gestating Avatar is compared to Coppola's Megalopolis.
“It's very similar Megalopolis Francis Ford Coppola vibes”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:27:18 · Sean Fennessey (0.70 sure it was them)
contrast (contrast): James Cameron → Quentin Tarantino. Tarantino promised early retirement; Cameron said he would never retire and was spending his prime years diving.
“But Tarantino was talking about his long promise thing of, you know, I'll retire when I'm 50.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:28:23 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
craft (craft): Avatar → Jurassic Park. Both Avatar and Jurassic Park must front-load complicated sci-fi premises; Jurassic Park is the cited good example.
“Jurassic Park has them watching a movie about how Jurassic Park works.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:40:03 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
craft (craft): Avatar → Jurassic Park. Jurassic Park is the usual example of exposition done right; Cameron just gets Avatar's exposition done bluntly.
“Jurassic Park is always site as an example of like, they figured out the right way to do it.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:40:14 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
lineage (lineage): Avatar → The Wizard of Oz. Avatar is described as a deep Wizard of Oz homage.
“In case you were wondering, this is a deep wizard of a homage, among other things.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:42:25 · Sean Fennessey (0.50 sure it was them)
industry (industry): Avatar → The Despicable Me / Minions films. The whole Minions franchise fits between Avatar and its sequel.
“The entire Despicable Me Minions franchise exists in between Avatar and the Way of Water.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:45:20 · David Sims (0.50 sure it was them)
industry (industry): Avatar → Spider-Man. A month after Avatar, Sony announced the Raimi Spider-Man 4 would not happen and the series would be recast.
“They announced that they are recasting Toby Maguire and resetting Spider-Man, not doing Sam Raimi Spider-Man 4 a month after Avatar comes out.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:45:57 · David Sims (0.50 sure it was them)
industry (industry): Avatar → Hollywood studios. Hollywood took the wrong lesson from Avatar: IP, speed, and slapped-on 3D.
“everything should be IP, make these things as fast as possible, and just previs the action, 3D, slap it on at the end”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:46:58 · David Sims (0.70 sure it was them)
contrast (contrast): Avatar → Star Wars: Episode IV – A New Hope. Avatar is an efficient workmanlike story, not one with fascinating margin detail like Star Wars.
“And it is because it is not a movie like Star Wars where you're so fascinated by all these little things happening at the margins, right?”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:48:04 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
contrast (contrast): Avatar → Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. Avatar has no visible seams, unlike franchise movies such as Doctor Strange 2 that lop off swaths.
“You were talking about Doctor Strange 2 and how there are huge swaths of that movie that you can just see, they just lopped off.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:49:58 · Sean Fennessey (0.70 sure it was them)
lineage (lineage): Avatar → Aliens. Cameron's 1995 pitch for Avatar was much closer to Aliens in tone.
“It was much closer to aliens in tone.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:52:25 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
lineage (lineage): Avatar → The Wizard of Oz. Avatar is an original story but inspired by Oz and John Ford movies.
“It's just like hugely inspired by not just the Wizard of Oz, but like lots of John Ford movies”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:53:51 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
lineage (lineage): Avatar → John Ford. Same line: Avatar draws on John Ford films and the history of movies.
“lots of John Ford movies and you can see like the history of movies”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:53:51 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
theme (theme): Avatar → Dances with Wolves. Avatar belongs to the interloper-story family but is not like Dances with Wolves or The Last Samurai.
“something like Dances with Wolves, Last Samurai, whichever one of these movies you want to throw out there. Interloper movies.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:55:09 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
contrast (contrast): Avatar → The Last of the Mohicans. Avatar's body-swap makes Jake literally become the people, unlike a Mohicans-style interloper.
“imagine if there was a movie about, like, if, like, the last of the Mohicans was about Daniel Day-Lewis entering the constructed body of a Native American.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:55:56 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
verdict (verdict): Avatar → Top Gun: Maverick. Avatar works like Top Gun: Maverick: cliched lines but an emotional rush that works in a crowd.
“a movie I feel similarly about is Top Gun Maverick, which I also saw 3 times in theaters.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:56:57 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
verdict (verdict): Top Gun: Maverick → Jurassic World Dominion. Trevorrow's Dominion interviews: give audiences what they expect but do it well, the Top Gun way.
“why don't you give them what they expect and want, but do it really, really well?”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:58:13 · David Sims (0.50 sure it was them)
contrast (contrast): Top Gun: Maverick → Avatar. Top Gun starts with a known franchise; Avatar has to set up everything and pay it off.
“Avatar does have to one set everything up, which is a huge challenge.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:59:28 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
verdict (verdict): Avatar → Dune. Avatar is compared to Dune as a movie that rewards giving yourself over to it.
“Can I compare it to another more recent movie that I was reminded of when I watched yesterday was Dune.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:00:14 · unknown (0.50 sure it was them)
contrast (contrast): Dune → Avatar. Dune looks good on a TV and feels more tactile and realistic than Avatar's world.
“Personally, I prefer the world of Dune over the world of Avatar because it feels like more tactile and realistic”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:01:05 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
contrast (contrast): Avatar → Aliens. Avatar's humans are not meant to be charismatic like Aliens' Marines; the audience is supposed to side with the Navi.
“When people go, why aren't the Marines in this as compelling as the Marines and aliens?”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:03:39 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
craft (craft): Avatar → Aliens. Making Aliens (a voiceless monster) is what let Cameron individualize the humans there and flip that in Avatar.
“I wonder if he hadn't made aliens if he could have arrived at that.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:04:08 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
theme (theme): Avatar → Galaxy Quest. The human-looking avatars are compared to Galaxy Quest's aliens who look like convention fans.
“There is a version of this story”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:07:47 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
career (career): Avatar → Titanic. Avatar could only be made because Titanic gave Cameron the clout.
“I'd never have gotten to make it if he hadn't made Titanic.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:09:04 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
career (career): Zoe Saldana → Guardians of the Galaxy. Saldana did something similar as Gamora in the Marvel movies.
“Obviously, we've seen her do something somewhat similar as Gamorrah in the Marvel movies.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:10:41 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
craft (craft): Zoe Saldana → Burt Reynolds. Saldana, like Burt Reynolds, is a great physical performer who understands her body as an instrument.
“But Zoe Saldana is very similarly, a great physical performer, an athletic performance.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:11:19 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
career (career): Zoe Saldana → Star Trek. Saldana was cast in Star Trek after the Avatar mocap but before Avatar came out.
“She gets cast in Star Trek after doing the motion capture for this, but before it comes out.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:11:50 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
people (people): Wes Studi → Avatar. Studi plays Neytiri's father and often serves as cultural consultant, but Saldana still feels the most precise.
“West Duty often is brought onto these films not just to act, but to help be the sort of cultural consultant.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:12:31 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
theme (theme): Avatar → Buddy-cop films. Neytiri, not Jake, kills Quaritch, unlike films where the white lead gets the kill.
“This is a movie where Natiri is the one who ends up pumps him full of arrows.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:13:28 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
lineage (lineage): James Cameron → Cecil B. DeMille. Cameron is called a domineering DeMille-style filmmaker yet made an anti-imperialist movie.
“a classical, domineering, Cecil B. DeMille style megalomaniacal filmmaker.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:14:34 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
industry (industry): Titanic → Avatar. Titanic held the box-office record until Avatar broke it twelve years later.
“Titanic had the record domestically and worldwide at the box office until Avatar.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:17:04 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
industry (industry): The Dark Knight → Avatar. The Dark Knight was the first movie to come close to Titanic's domestic record.
“Dark Knight came close, but it was, it had made $600 million domestic, and no other movie ever even got to 500 until the Dark Knight.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:17:25 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
industry (industry): Avatar: The Way of Water → Divergent. A planned multi-film series that never made its fourth film is the cautionary tale for committing to four Avatar sequels.
“This is kind of like divergent.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:23:28 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
programming (programming): Avatar: The Way of Water → Star Wars: Episode IV – A New Hope. After the Fox acquisition it felt like Disney would alternate Star Wars and Avatar releases.
“oh, they'll alternate every other year between a Star Wars movie and an Avatar movie.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:26:04 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
programming (programming): Avatar: The Way of Water → Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania. Disney's next big release after Avatar 2 is Ant-Man in late February, giving it about two months of runway.
“No, it's Ant-man in like late February, maybe.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:27:41 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
industry (industry): Avatar: The Way of Water → Tár. Way of Water's one vague teaser is compared to Tár's teaser campaign.
“This movie has the same marketing campaign as Tar.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:30:27 · Sean Fennessey (0.60 sure it was them)
verdict (verdict): Avatar → Lawrence of Arabia. Avatar is not as good as Lawrence of Arabia but is a similar must-see event.
“Avatar is not as good as Lawrence of Arabia, but it is like Lawrence of Arabia.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:34:45 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
contrast (contrast): Avatar → The Hurt Locker. Avatar lost Best Picture to ex-wife Kathryn Bigelow's The Hurt Locker.
“up against James Cameron's ex-partner, Catherine Bigelow, who at the during the same year, made the Hurt Locker”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:35:29 · Sean Fennessey (0.60 sure it was them)
industry (industry): The Hurt Locker → Avatar. Hurt Locker was the lowest-grossing Best Picture winner versus the highest-grossing film ever.
“Hurt Locker, when it won, was the lowest grossing best picture winner ever.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:35:45 · Sean Fennessey (0.60 sure it was them)
industry (industry): Avatar → Black Panther: Wakanda Forever. Two billion-dollar-plus first films both getting sequels a month apart, both as possible Best Picture contenders.
“You have 2 cultural phenomenon, $1000000000 1st movies”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:37:16 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
programming (programming): Avatar: The Way of Water → Black Panther: Wakanda Forever. Both sequels arrive within a month of each other.
“Now, both getting sequels within a month of each other.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:37:26 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
verdict (verdict): Star Wars: Episode IV – A New Hope → Star Wars: Episode VII – The Force Awakens. Star Wars sequels have never been nominated for Best Picture.
“The Star Wars sequel's never gotten nominated for best picture.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:38:24 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
programming (programming): Avatar: The Way of Water → Napoleon. Apple may release Napoleon on Christmas Day because the landscape is soft.
“Apple is seriously considering releasing Ridley Scott's Napoleon starring Joaquin Phoenix on Christmas Day because they're looking at the landscape and they're like, it's soft out here.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:38:33 · Sean Fennessey (0.50 sure it was them)
lineage (lineage): Avatar: The Way of Water → Terminator 2: Judgment Day. Cameron's pitches for sequels sounded off beforehand and then worked, as with T2.
“Before Terminator 2 was like, you want more Terminator?”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:44:26 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
contrast (contrast): Avatar: The Way of Water → Titanic. Titanic's pitch was a famous ship; Avatar's was Looney Tunes by comparison.
“the pitch for Avatar is Looney Tunes, like compared to like him being like, I know it's going to cost a fortune for me to build a boat and sink it, but it's the Titanic.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:45:08 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
verdict (verdict): Avatar → Titanic. Titanic made Cameron so successful that Hollywood let him do anything.
“needed to have this extraordinary amount of success over these decades to conceive an execute of something so crazy as Avatar.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:45:16 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
verdict (verdict): Avatar: The Way of Water → Top Gun: Maverick. The way into the sequel should be just sit and watch, as with Top Gun: Maverick.
“I kind of imagine it will be a little bit like Top Gun Maverick in that way where it's like the entry point for this movie is this movie.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:47:13 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)

Fun items (28)

fun, about Blank Check: The show began as a podcast solely about The Phantom Menace.
“a podcast exclusively about the Phantom Menace”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:03:47 · unknown (0.50 sure it was them)
fun, about Avatar: Re-release in China helped it pass Endgame again.
“that gave it like another $150000000 worldwide that bumped it above endgame again.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:09:24 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Avatar: On a jury in 2010, everybody said seeing Avatar felt like being there.
“It was like I was there.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:13:42 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Matt Damon: Damon turned down Jake Sully plus 10 percent of the future growth.
“In addition to 10% of the future growth of this movie.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:15:35 · Sean Fennessey (0.70 sure it was them)
fun, about Matt Damon: David wrote a sarcastic Atlantic article about the Great Wall poster and Damon blamed his own disappointment on the magazine.
“I wrote a sarcastic article and then Matt Damon gave an interviewer.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:17:11 · David Sims (0.80 sure it was them)
fun, about James Cameron: Chris Ryan nicknamed Cameron Big Jim; the sea is dope.
“As Chris once said, he thinks the sea is dope.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:28:00 · Sean Fennessey (0.90 sure it was them)
fun, about James Cameron: Cameron said his gap was his prime deep-sea years and he will never retire.
“I plan to die making films.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:28:38 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about James Cameron: Cameron got $10 million from Fox in 2005 to run R&D on Avatar and could have walked away.
“Give me a year to just do R&D.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:29:40 · Sean Fennessey (0.60 sure it was them)
fun, about James Cameron: Speaker calls Cameron the ultimate con artist whose con is real.
“Like, he is the ultimate, like, con artist whose con is real.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:30:08 · Sean Fennessey (0.60 sure it was them)
fun, about Titanic: Cameron's Titanic shoot was so rough he was reportedly dosed with PCP and kept directing.
“He was at one point drugged with PCP and just was like, I ain't stopping directing.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:31:17 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Titanic: On a pre-release Howard Stern interview Cameron said he had no financial stake after giving up profit participation.
“He said, I have no stake in this film financially.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:32:04 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Titanic: Cameron's 'king of the world' Oscar line made a room of adults groan.
“everyone in the room went, ugh.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:32:45 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Avatar: The extended cut includes 20 minutes of dystopian Earth with a drunk Jake, which Cameron once tried cutting from the opening.
“It's the worst footage in the movie”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:34:37 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Avatar: Cameron asked editors for a cut that opens on Jake waking up in the pod.
“And apparently at some point went to his editors and went, just give me a cut where it opens on him waking up in the pot.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:34:46 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Avatar: On unobtanium: you can't obtain it.
“Because you can't obtain it.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:36:19 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Avatar: Griffin and David saw the Cirque du Soleil Avatar show and got upgraded to courtside.
“We bought nosebleed tickets and we showed up and they went, do you want courtside tickets instead?”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:47:39 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Avatar: How To with John Wilson featured Avatar superfans.
“There is an extraordinary episode of How to with John Wilson.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:48:37 · Sean Fennessey (0.60 sure it was them)
fun, about Avatar: An Avatar MMO launched and already shut down.
“I found out they launched an MMO in the last 2 years that has already shut down.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:48:59 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Avatar: Cameron's 1995 pitch was R-rated and edgier before he broadened it for every country and age.
“It was R-rated.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 0:52:28 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Avatar: At 4DX, the seats rumbled.
“Yeah, our seats were rumbling.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:03:07 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Avatar: Rewatchers can't answer where Jake's human body goes or when he sleeps; the morning timeline makes no sense.
“You know, the day starts early and I'm like, it's probably like 11 AM.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:06:08 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Zoe Saldana: Speaker had Saldana on their Oscar ballot that year.
“She was on my ballot that year.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:09:55 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Wes Studi: Studi is often brought on as cultural consultant.
“West Duty often is brought onto these films not just to act, but to help be the sort of cultural consultant.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:12:31 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Disney Plus: Disney Plus is reportedly releasing nothing major in December to push people toward Avatar.
“Disney Plus is basically not releasing any major things on their service in December.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:28:08 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about Avatar: A speaker's franchise-averse 24-year-old sister, who skips every saga, lit up at the Way of Water trailer and wants to rewatch the first one.
“And then she went, God, I got to rewatch the 1st Avatar.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:32:32 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about The Hurt Locker: Lowest-grossing Best Picture winner, beat the highest-grossing film ever.
“Hurt Locker, when it won, was the lowest grossing best picture winner ever.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:35:45 · Sean Fennessey (0.60 sure it was them)
fun, about Avatar: The Way of Water: Sigourney Weaver is back playing the daughter.
“It's like, no, she's going to play their daughter.”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:43:37 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)
fun, about David Sims: Voices a New York chipmunk named Pip in Disenchanted.
“which I voice a wisecracking New York Chipmunk”
The Big Picture · The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims · 1:48:39 · unknown (0.40 sure it was them)

Who's talking

Sean Fennessey (host): Sean loves Cameron the schemer who wins and is a Top Gun: Maverick and Avatar believer who rewatched Avatar in theaters. He is a box-office and awards-season nerd, dubious that the long tail Avatar had in 2009 can repeat. He is a sucker for a movie that simply works and for director talk.
Griffin Newman (guest): Griffin is a long-time Cameron enthusiast and sincere blockbuster fan, someone who watches trailers on loop and gets choked up by them. He loves a clean engineered story and defends Avatar's sincerity. He dislikes meta, smirky franchise filmmaking.
David Sims (guest): David is an Atlantic critic and box-office nerd who has written about what Hollywood failed to learn from Avatar. He loves the movie as a sincere crowd-pleaser and compares it to Top Gun: Maverick. He is exasperated by writers' rooms and 'director bullshit' he loves.
Bobby Wagner (guest): Bobby is the Big Picture's producer, sitting in the room. He was an Avatar hater for about a decade, having first seen it at 13 and rejecting the hype, then loved a first rewatch at home on a 55-inch TV. He compares it to Dune and plays video games for hours a day.

The show's recurring bits

Drafts: Hosts and guests draft films in rounds; every pick is a recommendation with an argument.
Hall of Fame: A star's or director's best, ranked and argued.
Countdowns: Ranked lists, top five or top ten.

Names the transcriber got wrong

Sean Fantasy → Sean Fennessey
Rabisi → Ribisi (Giovanni Ribisi)
Nateri/Natiri → Neytiri
Navi/Naville → Na'vi
CCH Founder → CCH Pounder
West Studi → Wes Studi
Great War → The Great Wall
Dilly Brown → probably Dileep Rao
Taruk/Turuk → Toruk
Stanley Cooper → Stanley Kubrick
Henry Selleck → Henry Selick
Shamalan → Shyamalan
Trevoro → Colin Trevorrow
Blanket → Blank Check
Gamorrah → Gamora
Tanahasi Coates → Ta-Nehisi Coates
Chillenhall → Gyllenhaal
Ponio → Ponyo
last night (Star Wars) → The Last Jedi
intransigent → Divergent: Ascendant (guess)
Tarp → Tár
$3000000 dollars (Avatar profit) → likely 3 billion

The Big Picture: The Great ‘Avatar’ Debate with Blank Check’s Griffin Newman and David Sims

As extracted (engineer-sonnet-2026-10-13)

Films that came up

subject (2)

passing (58)

anecdote (12)

compared (17)

Claims (71)

Fun items (28)

Who's talking

The show's recurring bits

Names the transcriber got wrong