Loves Killer's Kiss and 1950s noir and studio-era trivia, and is happy to run the box office game from deep knowledge. Dislikes padded plotless first films, and is quick to point out what a first film is missing.
Stances
Killer's Kiss is a blast and more romantic than expected
Fear and Desire reads like a poem not a story
50s box office lists are full of forgotten programmers
Humor: Dry, British-inflected asides and fake-outraged bits.
David prefers Burton's Batman Returns and Batman Begins as his top live-action Batmans, and is more lukewarm than Griffin on Lego Batman, finding the middle stretch with other IP monotonous. He loves Lego as a kid (Ice Planet) and now covets expert-level Star Wars sets. He enjoys comedy-world gossip about Ellie Kemper and Michael Cera.
Stances
Not his favorite Batman movie because of the invading IP stuff
The middle stretch with the other villains is boring
Returns and Begins are his two favorite live-action Batmans
Humor: Dry teasing of Griffin and Ben, and self-aware dad jokes about buying Lego for his baby.
In their words
“Which have always been my 2 favorite live action Batman movies.” (0:00:55)
“So I think we just got through the stretch of the movie that I think is a little boring.” (1:14:42)
David asks the commonsense questions the film refuses to answer and loves a deadpan Occam's razor defense. He is a dad, a sports-box-office guy, and a sucker for a movie-history comparison, but he draws the line at being asked to like this.
Stances
Why would they not just skip the deal
Wants simple explanations (Occam's razor)
Calls Old Dogs a bad movie but finds it fascinating
Humor: Dry logic questions and quick film-reference comparisons.
Admires the film's production value and its comedic precision, and is the one reading box office data and quizzing. Can't stand the self-serious trend in Batman movies; a sucker for 60s epics and trivia about directors and casts.
Stances
Batman movies have raced toward self-serious credibility
Burton and Schumacher inherited the West show's tone and branding
Humor: Dry factual one-liners and pop-culture deflation.
In their words
“I think this is the the oldest film we've ever covered on this podcast.” (0:00:48)
“It's been this race to self-serious credibility.” (1:04:50)
Wanted to do Lean personally and expected Welles to win. Mild about Mel Brooks, worried about repetitiveness, but admires his cultural importance. Loves Planet of the Apes.
Stances
Fears Brooks may get repetitive
Pro-Lean
Humor: Dry and teasing with the Chip bit.
In their words
“I also would love to do lean personally.” (0:11:11)
A longtime defender who saw In the Cut at 17 and was 'well known for being the In the Cut is good person'. Loves Unfaithful, Addicted to Love and Kevin Bacon-style character work, and sweats the details of box-office history. (Speaker labels are inferred; the transcript has none.)
Stances
He has always been an In the Cut fan
2003 was a great year for commercial and art cinema alike
Humor: Rattles off box-office lists and trivia and teases Griffin about his taste.
In their words
“I was well known for being the in the cut is good person.” (0:09:26)
“Okay, fine. I love that movie.” (0:13:04)
“I was watching on Netflix out of convenience.” (0:52:44)
Likes campy, genre-aware Twilight and enjoyed New Moon for its challenges; likes old-timey vampire vs werewolf action and well-made lore. Hates inert scenes and kissing-free tension, and gets irritated by clutter/poor casting. A sucker for actors with dirtbag charisma and trivia on actors' careers. Attribution partly inferred; many lines unattributed.
Stances
New Moon is better
Casting of Riley/Victoria is the problem
Condon will lean into camp
Humor: Quick one-liners and pop-culture trivia.
In their words
“I will say, I am enjoying this old timey vampire versus werewolf action.” (0:45:48)
“Because I gotta tell you, this one, this one was a big knot.” (2:21:34)
A critic who has seen Covenant at a press screening and on 4K; likes Prometheus and Scott's ambition. Pays attention to who composed and wrote, and to the Alien franchise's lineage. Likes the film's double-Fassbender conceit and the stranger parts.
Stances
Scott hates humans and rich people
The two androids are the film's best part
Covenant is half Prometheus sequel, half studio-requested Alien
Humor: Sarcastic asides and escalating bits about David and the fake franchises.
In their words
“I have rewatched this like once since theaters.” (1:23:01)
Knows the production history cold (Danny Boyle, Whedon, Jeunet) and loves practical effects, animatronics, big industrial sets and character actors like Brad Dourif and Ron Perlman. Has a lifelong crush on Winona Ryder. Cannot stand when a movie stops to talk, or generic villains like Michael Wincott's.
Stances
Whedon and Jeunet were a terrible match
The first hour is fun, the talky middle is weak
The newborn alien is a big swing worth admiring
All the Alien movies are worth defending
Humor: Dry film-nerd with deadpan joke elaboration, especially mock Deadline headlines.
In their words
“I mean, I guess I have such an incredible weakness for Winona Rider, as you know, Griffin.” (0:37:58)
“I think alien movies need to be gnarly.” (0:23:09)
Defends Alien 3 as moody and Fincher-flavored but admits it is unrelentingly bleak. Loves the mythos of the Weyland-Yutani company and Sigourney Weaver. Cares about box-office history.
Stances
Alien 3 makes a defensible creative choice with a prison setting
The movie is flawed by a missing thesis about the prison
A box-office run-down belongs in every episode
Humor: Dry delivery; sets up bits with straight-faced trivia and plays the straight man to Griffin.
In their words
“I love the mythos of alien.” (1:53:27)
“Uh, yeah, it fell off 65% in its 2nd weekend.” (2:09:50)
Admires Fallout and McQuarrie's craft, loves Hitchcock-style set pieces and tight villains. Dislikes bloated plot mechanics and has strong feelings about Alec Baldwin's career.
Stances
Fallout may top Rogue Nation on rewatch
Rogue Nation's opera sequence is the series high point
Humor: Dry asides, comedy-point awards and speaking about England from lived experience.
In their words
“I did grow up in Britain, and this is the place where I grew up.” (1:35:19)
A native Upper West Sider (also raised partly in England) who knows the neighborhood the film is set in. Loves Meg Ryan's weirder rom-coms (Addicted to Love, Practical Magic) and award-season history. Likes to run quizzes and box-office games.
Stances
The Upper West Side is the film's real subject
Meg Ryan has more range than Hanks
Awards-season trivia reveals how rom-coms are dismissed
Humor: Trivia ambusher; pairs deadpan facts with pop-culture gossip.
In their words
“So I grew up on 89th and Amsterdam.” (0:24:20)
“David has many times tried to sell me on the idea of doing a Griffin Dunn miniseries because he so badly wants to cover her to love.” (1:21:31)
“So can you tell me the 5 nominees for best performance by an actor in a comedy or musical at the 1998 Golden Globes?” (1:42:56)
Runs the box office quiz and tracks the stars' careers across the 1990s (Matthau, Lemmon, Kudrow, Ryan). Likes the Ephron sensibility but finds this film lacking structure; loves Pitch Black context and sci-fi bargains. Cannot stand sentimental farewells like Tuesdays with Morrie.
Stances
The film needs a romantic subplot or tighter structure
Matthau's performance is the best thing in the movie
Tuesdays with Morrie is the worst film ever made
Humor: Dry, exasperated riffs on Hollywood economics and casting; sparring with Griffin over box office guesses.
In their words
“Okay, it's the worst film ever made.” (0:44:25)
“You can't fake rich LA, right?” (1:09:10)
“Anyway, the number one movie at the box office this weekend was the whole 9 yards.” (1:18:31)
Prefers the practical, performed experience over the movie and calls the film like eating mayonnaise from the jar. A sucker for shaggy gags and ironic Oscar talk.
Stances
The experience was better than the movie
Universal's rental model will work on desperate parents
Humor: Deadpan put-downs and analogies, such as the Olive Garden review.
In their words
“I think I tapped out at a certain point.” (0:45:34)
Defends the movie's big set pieces (speeder bike chase, the Emperor and Luke scenes) while admitting the structure is sloppy; loves Akbar and Harrison Ford's career lore. Hates the Emperor's flat conception and the late sibling reveal. Likes box office trivia and games.
Stances
Jedi has the weakest finish of the three
The Emperor is uncompelling as a character
Ewoks are fine; the problem is what Han and Leia do
Was a kid who thought Jedi was the best until a rewatch
Humor: Dry, tired asides and playful teasing of Griffin and Ben, getting punchier as the beers accumulate.
In their words
“Griffin thought that way until he was like 27 years old.” (1:49:51)
“I think that's the other major difference.” (1:00:53)
Critic-ish and enthusiastic: Portrait of a Lady on Fire is his movie of the year; loves Ashes Is Purest White, Dark Waters, Ad Astra, Knives Out. Values movie-star performances and gets visibly fond of overlooked films like Peterloo and Triple Frontier.
Stances
Portrait of a Lady on Fire is the year's best
Dark Waters will be re-evaluated; the film is underrated
Prefers Toy Story 4 more than expected
Humor: Dry; plays straight man and throws in lines like 'Absolute 0 Popes' reactions and the Becker running joke.
In their words
“That has been the movie for me all year.” (1:09:50)
Champion of Infinity War: loves how Thanos is the real protagonist and how the movie argues for caring about every character. Hates the idea that deaths must be final to matter, and loves actors' craft and box-office trivia. Nervous flyer who loves a road trip to Toronto.
Stances
Thanos is the protagonist and the film is about every character mattering
Killing characters is uninteresting; the loss is what counts
The MCU's crossover structure is a cinematic accomplishment
Humor: Deadpan overshare and cheerful self-roast, especially about his fear of flying.
In their words
“I'm a very nervous flyer.” (0:00:52)
“I think killing characters is uninteresting and usually, like, I just don't care for it.” (2:26:40)
Loves rules, systems and well-set-up action (Infinity Stone rules, Gamora's type-A bossiness, clear action goals); a box-office and Marvel-billing obsessive who makes spreadsheets. Respects Lee Pace's operatic villain and Drax. Dislikes Marvel's post-production sheen and the 'house style' gray. Speaker attribution is inferred from the room's teasing and is uncertain.
Stances
Lee Pace's Ronan is a great, underrated Marvel villain
Marvel's color grading is bad but the art direction is good
Humor in Guardians works as a storytelling aid
Humor: Gets teased as a bossy rules-loving spreadsheet guy and plays along with deadpan.
In their words
“I like type A tightwad characters.” (0:27:52)
“I like the Infinity Stone stuff because I like rules.” (1:10:54)
Their shows' recurring bits
Running bits, not opinions; a critic read aloud is cited, not present.
The Big Picture
Drafts: Hosts and guests draft films in rounds; every pick is a recommendation with an argument.
Hall of Fame: A star's or director's best, ranked and argued.
Countdowns: Ranked lists, top five or top ten.
Blank Check with Griffin & David
The box office game: Guessing the film's opening weekend and what it was up against.
The sung theme: "Blank Check with Griffin and David", sung; the transcriber garbles it.
Their claims
Showing 501–600 of 1,091 claims.
unmapped (same fetish):
You're the Worst (TV) → The Game.
The only other depiction of findom the speaker has seen is You're the Worst.
“The only time I've ever seen that depicted is you're the worst has a big findom plot.”
industry (release strategy):
Seven → Kiss the Girls.
Se7en was a September release sold as a nasty genre movie, like Kiss the Girls and later Freeman thrillers.
“in the same vein in terms of its release strategy is like, Kiss the girls.”
industry (studio hiring pattern):
Jean-Pierre Jeunet → Vincent Ward.
Fox later hired Jeunet for Resurrection the same way it hired Ward: a unique artistic vision, just have a meeting.
“which is clearly what they did with Jhene later too, where they're just sort of like, well, this guy has a unique artistic vision.”
unmapped (concept merged in):
Vincent Ward → Alien 3.
The film is built from Ward's monk concept pushed together with the prison planet; his only surviving credit is story.
“they mishing up the monks with the prison planet, they turn the monks into prisoners, but they're kind of religious.”
people (composer comparison):
Elliot Goldenthal → Danny Elfman.
In the 90s Goldenthal was becoming an unconventional blockbuster composer, Elfman style.
“becoming sort of Alfman style, an unconventional blockbuster composer”
people (composer brief):
Elliot Goldenthal → David Fincher.
Goldenthal says Fincher wanted the audience to feel completely fucked within five minutes with no hope.
“Fincher told him he wanted him, you to feel, you the audience, to feel you were completely fucked within 5 minutes and that there is no hope completely.”
career (career):
Henry Selick → Tim Burton.
Burton said Selick was the only CalArts student who moved between the experimental and character-animation camps.
“Burton said that Selleck was the only guy in his time who actually coexisted between the 2 camps.”
industry (industry):
The Fox and the Hound → Don Bluth.
Fox and the Hound is the fulcrum of American animation: Bluth's walkout and the CalArts generation's disillusion.
“that movie is the real fulcum point of American animation in its own weird way”
contrast (contrast):
Henry Selick → Richard Williams.
Selick's insistence on live-action camera moves is like Williams hand-drawing his camera movement.
“much like Richard Williams being like, I'll fucking hand draw the camera movement”
contrast (contrast):
The Nightmare Before Christmas → Aladdin.
Disney princess films open with an I-want song; Jack's opening is a triumph followed by unexplained ennui.
“the Disney princess movies of this time have the big, I want song, right?”
industry (industry):
The Nightmare Before Christmas → Aardman.
Aardman is the one studio working consistently in stop motion with a different tone from Nightmare's creepiness.
“Ardaman is the only studio that's been able to work consistently at a high level and stop motion and do something totally different tonally.”
theme (King-like author character):
Mike Flanagan → The Haunting of Hill House.
Hill House has a character who becomes a paperback author very similar to King.
“one of the characters becomes like a, like, an author of, like, paperback, like, novels very similar to King.”
unmapped (Netflix hit gave Flanagan the job):
The Haunting of Hill House → Doctor Sleep.
The speakers guess the hit Netflix King adaptation and Hill House, after Oculus and Ouija, are why Flanagan got Doctor Sleep.
“And then I think it really is the Geralds game thing.”
unmapped (restored ending):
The Shining (King's novel) → Doctor Sleep.
Flanagan pitched going back to the Overlook as a means to restore the burn-down ending of King's book, which won King over.
“he said, I'm going to go back to the Overlook, but as means to an end to restore your ending.”
unmapped (King's disavowal):
Doctor Sleep (King's novel) → The Shining.
King's sequel book, speakers say, goes out of its way to say Kubrick's movie did not happen.
“it feels like he's even, you know, trying in the book to be like, and that movie didn't happen, FYI”
craft (visual echo):
Doctor Sleep → The Shining.
The hospice office is composed like the Overlook interview scene, reversed so the boss helps instead of dooms.
“It's composed like the exact same way as that 1st interview sequence in the original film.”
lineage (legacy sequel (contrast)):
Ghostbusters: Afterlife → Doctor Sleep.
Afterlife is eager to relive the first movie for no reason; Doctor Sleep avoids the original for as long as it can, so its return is earned.
“Ghostbusters Afterlife is a perfect example of the movie is so eager to relive the 1st movie”
lineage (ripoff):
Black Adam → Terminator 2: Judgment Day.
The Black Adam kid is called a straight John Connor ripoff, down to the skateboard and the catchphrase coaching.
unmapped (subversion):
Full Metal Jacket → Major Payne.
The answer to how to subvert the drill-sergeant movie is to do it with children, as in Major Payne.
career (unmade project taken up):
Stanley Kubrick → Steven Spielberg.
Kubrick could not make A.I. because technology was not ready; Spielberg eventually did.
“which obviously Steven Spielberg eventually makes.”
people (co-writer carried over):
Michael Herr → Full Metal Jacket.
Kubrick kept Herr, the writer from one piece of material, to help adapt a different one.
“Yeah, so he sort of absorbs the writer from one piece of material to help them adapt a different piece of material.”
programming (thematic pairing):
The Woman King → Full Metal Jacket.
Both films are about how much you have to break your brain to survive training for war.
“But it's the thing that like Woman King goes into a lot as well of like, how much you have to break your brain to survive an environment like this, right?”
theme (same location instruction):
Stanley Kubrick → Ken Adam.
Kubrick told Ken Adam to find every location within 20 miles of his home, as on Barry Lyndon.
“Which was basically the same thing he told him for Barry Lyndon”
industry (Oscar attention):
A Clockwork Orange → Full Metal Jacket.
Clockwork Orange got Oscar attention, but The Shining, Full Metal Jacket and Eyes Wide Shut were ignored.
“obviously, the shining full metal jacket and eyes wide shut are all basically ignored by the Oscars.”
people (same actor, opposite bodies):
Full Metal Jacket → Adventures in Babysitting.
D'Onofrio is Pyle and a Thor-lookalike beefcake in two films opening the same summer.
“Dino Frio is on, you know, different screens in your multiplex in completely different bodies.”
people (unrealized collaboration):
Paddy Chayefsky → Stanley Kubrick.
Kubrick was one of only three people who met to direct Network, but he and Chayefsky never clicked.
“Kubrick was like one of only 3 people who even met to direct that movie.”
fun, about
The Judge:
The judge's tell is that he forgets his bailiff's name; the hosts say it is set up in the first scene and is open and shut at trial, yet they convict him anyway.
“The bailiff who he's had at his side for like 30 years.”
fun, about
Warner Bros.:
The Judge's tornado father-son fight is a Man of Steel homage, so Warner Bros. is the go-to studio for father-and-son tornado fights.
“Warner Brothers has become the go to studios for tornado fights.”
fun, about
Robert Downey Jr.:
Pitch to Downey for an Oscar: play Buster Keaton, whose voice was a gravelly surprise after MGM made him do talkies with Jimmy Durante.
fun, about
Joel Kinnaman:
Kinnaman said his dad, an American soldier, deserted during Vietnam and ended up in Sweden; he spoke English with his dad and Swedish with his mom.
“I spoke English with my dad in Swedish with my mom.”
fun, about
RoboCop (2014) - suit:
The first suit reveal got an awful response a week or two into filming, so the production panicked and had two weeks to build a second, 80s-style suit that could fit only 15 to 20 minutes of the film.
“the production panicked when the 1st photos came out and the response was so bad”
fun, about
Jackie Earle Haley:
Haley told the host while filming The Tick that he was proud of this performance because it was a different thing he doesn't usually get.
fun, about
RoboCop (2014) - ending:
The final showdown is Keaton holding the wife and son at gunpoint on a rooftop helipad to get away in a helicopter.
“The final showdown of this movie is Michael Keaton holding Alex Murphy's wife and sonic gunpoint on the rooftop helipad.”
fun, about
Samuel L. Jackson:
The film ends with Jackson saying good night; the host jokes that his favorite part of his movies is when he doesn't say motherfucker.
“It's my favorite part of his movies is when he doesn't say motherfucker.”
fun, about
RoboCop (2014) - sequel:
Neill Blomkamp was attached to a sequel and Neumeier and Miner came back with an old-man script called RoboCop Returns; it never happened.
fun, about
Six Men Getting Sick:
Lynch's first proper short is a one-minute film of casts of Jack Fisk's head throwing up; it earned him a $1000 grant.
“It's a one minute film of these like weird casts of Jack Fisk's head throwing up.”
fun, about
Eraserhead:
After rejections from Cannes' Directors' Fortnight and the New York Film Festival, a bad Variety review at Filmex led Lynch to cut about 20 minutes.
“Lynch then cuts about 20 minutes out of the movie.”
fun, about
Andrew Kevin Walker:
Fincher pitched Walker a five-chapter plan for The Killer in 2008, nothing happened for ten years, then in 2018 he recited it back word for word and said he was set up at Netflix. Walker told this at the Q&A.
“And then 2018, he goes, do you remember that killer thing?”
fun, about
Michael Fassbender:
Halfway through the shoot Fassbender told Fincher he finally got it: precision modeling, holding a head position for long takes.
fun, about
Erik Messerschmidt:
Michael Mann told the speaker he likes Messerschmidt (Gone Girl's gaffer, now DP on Ferrari) because cinematography is all lighting.
“to me, cinematography is all lighting and no one understands lighting anymore.”
fun, about
The Social Network:
The 166-page script was too long for Sony; Fincher and Sorkin read it aloud against a stopwatch and it came out at two hours.
“And Fincher was like, you and me are going to sit down and read the script.”
fun, about
Armie Hammer:
The twin effect (Hammer plus Josh Pence's body) is called one of Fincher's most impressive technical feats, though the 4K shows a little deep-fake tracking on big moves.
“honestly, maybe one of the most impressive things Fincher has ever done technically.”
fun, about
Rick Springfield:
Springfield owns one of the great Star Wars action figure collections, though by his own admission he is more a figure fan than a movie fan; the hosts tie it to Fincher's Return of the Jedi credit.
“Rick Springfield has one of the greatest Star Wars action figure collections in the world.”
fun, about
David Fincher:
A host says Fincher thinks the death of the music video cost a generation of visually distinctive filmmakers their training ground.
“the death of the music video has really been at the expense of a new generation of visually distinctive filmmakers coming up.”
fun, about
Nicole Kidman:
If Fincher had shut the film down after Kidman's injury, the insurance would have paid out a profit.
“They basically, I mean, the numbers I saw, there was some sort of calculation of like, if they had shut the movie down and just never started filming again, they would have made $3000000 off the insurance.”
fun, about
The Game:
Fincher on Douglas, as read from the dossier: the story is a little prurient and sadistic because you enjoy the central character's suffering, and nobody embraces that as eagerly as Douglas.
“You want to see him learn a lesson, and nobody embraces that quite as eagerly as Michael Douglas.”
fun, about
The Sky Is Falling (unmade):
Fincher's post-Se7en idea: two clerics on a dig find proof that God is dead and are hunted by a terminally ill hitman.
“Two clerics on an archaeological dig, discover proof that God is actually dead.”
fun, about
The Game:
Fincher wanted the audience to have nothing to hold on to; he calls it a movie about movies, where the protagonist doesn't know how to act like a movie star.
fun, about
Jodie Foster:
She wanted to play the waitress; Fincher said she was too famous; she suggested sister, then daughter, then Douglas refused to play her father; she was written out and sued.
“She then filed a huge lawsuit saying she was supposed to be in it.”
fun, about
The Game:
Not in print for a long time (a Polygram issue, per a host); the Criterion Blu-ray in 2012 carried features shot during production for Criterion.
“This is a movie that was like not in print for a very long time.”
fun, about
The Full Monty:
At 5 weeks in 387 theaters it was on its way to a best picture nomination; one host picked it down the ballot at an Oscar party against Titanic.
fun, about
Panic Room:
The three-disc Panic Room DVD is called the most comprehensive special-feature package for any movie ever, and the movie is not on Blu-ray.
“peak DVD Fincher being like every single 2nd of this will be documented.”
fun, about
Jordan Cronenweth:
The first cinematographer was diagnosed with Parkinson's weeks in, barely shot anything, but set the look; Alex Thomson took over, and the son later became Fincher's DP.
“He barely shot anything, but he set the look that then was continued.”
fun, about
Henry Selick:
Selick on Burton: five set visits in two years, 8 to 10 hours total; 'it was like me adapting a book that was never actually written.'
“it was like me adapting a book that was never actually written.”
fun, about
Tim Burton:
Burton and Selick fought over the Oogie ending (Scooby-Doo reveal that he's Finkelstein); the fight reportedly ruined an editing bay.
“Selleck wanted the ending to be that Oogie Boogie was actually Dr. Finkelstein in disguise.”
fun, about
Henry Selick:
1994 Sight and Sound quote read to close: audiences are more open than Hollywood imagines; the stranger the imagery, the straighter the story.
“But the audience is more open than Hollywood imagines.”
fun, about
Henry Thomas / Doctor Sleep:
Henry Thomas, Elliott from E.T., plays Jack Torrance in the bar scene, shot in profile with his chin down; the host did not recognize him until the credits.
“And then somehow the moment he comes on screen and the entire scene, extended scene is all done from profile.”
fun, about
Ewan McGregor / The Island:
A studio exec threw The Island under the bus: the mistake was hiring the stars of tomorrow rather than the stars of today.
“the mistake we made was hiring the stars of tomorrow rather than the stars of today.”
fun, about
Rebecca Ferguson:
A host notices her Irish accent slips in on purpose, since Rose has lived thousands of years and the roots are nearly gone.
“She is choosing to have an Irish accent slip in sometime, because the point is this character has been alive for 1000s of years.”
fun, about
Doctor Sleep:
In the baseball scene a sideline parent is the actor who played Danny in The Shining, now a school teacher who was excited to do it.