Loves Killer's Kiss and 1950s noir and studio-era trivia, and is happy to run the box office game from deep knowledge. Dislikes padded plotless first films, and is quick to point out what a first film is missing.
Stances
Killer's Kiss is a blast and more romantic than expected
Fear and Desire reads like a poem not a story
50s box office lists are full of forgotten programmers
Humor: Dry, British-inflected asides and fake-outraged bits.
David prefers Burton's Batman Returns and Batman Begins as his top live-action Batmans, and is more lukewarm than Griffin on Lego Batman, finding the middle stretch with other IP monotonous. He loves Lego as a kid (Ice Planet) and now covets expert-level Star Wars sets. He enjoys comedy-world gossip about Ellie Kemper and Michael Cera.
Stances
Not his favorite Batman movie because of the invading IP stuff
The middle stretch with the other villains is boring
Returns and Begins are his two favorite live-action Batmans
Humor: Dry teasing of Griffin and Ben, and self-aware dad jokes about buying Lego for his baby.
In their words
“Which have always been my 2 favorite live action Batman movies.” (0:00:55)
“So I think we just got through the stretch of the movie that I think is a little boring.” (1:14:42)
David asks the commonsense questions the film refuses to answer and loves a deadpan Occam's razor defense. He is a dad, a sports-box-office guy, and a sucker for a movie-history comparison, but he draws the line at being asked to like this.
Stances
Why would they not just skip the deal
Wants simple explanations (Occam's razor)
Calls Old Dogs a bad movie but finds it fascinating
Humor: Dry logic questions and quick film-reference comparisons.
Admires the film's production value and its comedic precision, and is the one reading box office data and quizzing. Can't stand the self-serious trend in Batman movies; a sucker for 60s epics and trivia about directors and casts.
Stances
Batman movies have raced toward self-serious credibility
Burton and Schumacher inherited the West show's tone and branding
Humor: Dry factual one-liners and pop-culture deflation.
In their words
“I think this is the the oldest film we've ever covered on this podcast.” (0:00:48)
“It's been this race to self-serious credibility.” (1:04:50)
Wanted to do Lean personally and expected Welles to win. Mild about Mel Brooks, worried about repetitiveness, but admires his cultural importance. Loves Planet of the Apes.
Stances
Fears Brooks may get repetitive
Pro-Lean
Humor: Dry and teasing with the Chip bit.
In their words
“I also would love to do lean personally.” (0:11:11)
A longtime defender who saw In the Cut at 17 and was 'well known for being the In the Cut is good person'. Loves Unfaithful, Addicted to Love and Kevin Bacon-style character work, and sweats the details of box-office history. (Speaker labels are inferred; the transcript has none.)
Stances
He has always been an In the Cut fan
2003 was a great year for commercial and art cinema alike
Humor: Rattles off box-office lists and trivia and teases Griffin about his taste.
In their words
“I was well known for being the in the cut is good person.” (0:09:26)
“Okay, fine. I love that movie.” (0:13:04)
“I was watching on Netflix out of convenience.” (0:52:44)
Likes campy, genre-aware Twilight and enjoyed New Moon for its challenges; likes old-timey vampire vs werewolf action and well-made lore. Hates inert scenes and kissing-free tension, and gets irritated by clutter/poor casting. A sucker for actors with dirtbag charisma and trivia on actors' careers. Attribution partly inferred; many lines unattributed.
Stances
New Moon is better
Casting of Riley/Victoria is the problem
Condon will lean into camp
Humor: Quick one-liners and pop-culture trivia.
In their words
“I will say, I am enjoying this old timey vampire versus werewolf action.” (0:45:48)
“Because I gotta tell you, this one, this one was a big knot.” (2:21:34)
A critic who has seen Covenant at a press screening and on 4K; likes Prometheus and Scott's ambition. Pays attention to who composed and wrote, and to the Alien franchise's lineage. Likes the film's double-Fassbender conceit and the stranger parts.
Stances
Scott hates humans and rich people
The two androids are the film's best part
Covenant is half Prometheus sequel, half studio-requested Alien
Humor: Sarcastic asides and escalating bits about David and the fake franchises.
In their words
“I have rewatched this like once since theaters.” (1:23:01)
Knows the production history cold (Danny Boyle, Whedon, Jeunet) and loves practical effects, animatronics, big industrial sets and character actors like Brad Dourif and Ron Perlman. Has a lifelong crush on Winona Ryder. Cannot stand when a movie stops to talk, or generic villains like Michael Wincott's.
Stances
Whedon and Jeunet were a terrible match
The first hour is fun, the talky middle is weak
The newborn alien is a big swing worth admiring
All the Alien movies are worth defending
Humor: Dry film-nerd with deadpan joke elaboration, especially mock Deadline headlines.
In their words
“I mean, I guess I have such an incredible weakness for Winona Rider, as you know, Griffin.” (0:37:58)
“I think alien movies need to be gnarly.” (0:23:09)
Defends Alien 3 as moody and Fincher-flavored but admits it is unrelentingly bleak. Loves the mythos of the Weyland-Yutani company and Sigourney Weaver. Cares about box-office history.
Stances
Alien 3 makes a defensible creative choice with a prison setting
The movie is flawed by a missing thesis about the prison
A box-office run-down belongs in every episode
Humor: Dry delivery; sets up bits with straight-faced trivia and plays the straight man to Griffin.
In their words
“I love the mythos of alien.” (1:53:27)
“Uh, yeah, it fell off 65% in its 2nd weekend.” (2:09:50)
Admires Fallout and McQuarrie's craft, loves Hitchcock-style set pieces and tight villains. Dislikes bloated plot mechanics and has strong feelings about Alec Baldwin's career.
Stances
Fallout may top Rogue Nation on rewatch
Rogue Nation's opera sequence is the series high point
Humor: Dry asides, comedy-point awards and speaking about England from lived experience.
In their words
“I did grow up in Britain, and this is the place where I grew up.” (1:35:19)
A native Upper West Sider (also raised partly in England) who knows the neighborhood the film is set in. Loves Meg Ryan's weirder rom-coms (Addicted to Love, Practical Magic) and award-season history. Likes to run quizzes and box-office games.
Stances
The Upper West Side is the film's real subject
Meg Ryan has more range than Hanks
Awards-season trivia reveals how rom-coms are dismissed
Humor: Trivia ambusher; pairs deadpan facts with pop-culture gossip.
In their words
“So I grew up on 89th and Amsterdam.” (0:24:20)
“David has many times tried to sell me on the idea of doing a Griffin Dunn miniseries because he so badly wants to cover her to love.” (1:21:31)
“So can you tell me the 5 nominees for best performance by an actor in a comedy or musical at the 1998 Golden Globes?” (1:42:56)
Runs the box office quiz and tracks the stars' careers across the 1990s (Matthau, Lemmon, Kudrow, Ryan). Likes the Ephron sensibility but finds this film lacking structure; loves Pitch Black context and sci-fi bargains. Cannot stand sentimental farewells like Tuesdays with Morrie.
Stances
The film needs a romantic subplot or tighter structure
Matthau's performance is the best thing in the movie
Tuesdays with Morrie is the worst film ever made
Humor: Dry, exasperated riffs on Hollywood economics and casting; sparring with Griffin over box office guesses.
In their words
“Okay, it's the worst film ever made.” (0:44:25)
“You can't fake rich LA, right?” (1:09:10)
“Anyway, the number one movie at the box office this weekend was the whole 9 yards.” (1:18:31)
Prefers the practical, performed experience over the movie and calls the film like eating mayonnaise from the jar. A sucker for shaggy gags and ironic Oscar talk.
Stances
The experience was better than the movie
Universal's rental model will work on desperate parents
Humor: Deadpan put-downs and analogies, such as the Olive Garden review.
In their words
“I think I tapped out at a certain point.” (0:45:34)
Defends the movie's big set pieces (speeder bike chase, the Emperor and Luke scenes) while admitting the structure is sloppy; loves Akbar and Harrison Ford's career lore. Hates the Emperor's flat conception and the late sibling reveal. Likes box office trivia and games.
Stances
Jedi has the weakest finish of the three
The Emperor is uncompelling as a character
Ewoks are fine; the problem is what Han and Leia do
Was a kid who thought Jedi was the best until a rewatch
Humor: Dry, tired asides and playful teasing of Griffin and Ben, getting punchier as the beers accumulate.
In their words
“Griffin thought that way until he was like 27 years old.” (1:49:51)
“I think that's the other major difference.” (1:00:53)
Critic-ish and enthusiastic: Portrait of a Lady on Fire is his movie of the year; loves Ashes Is Purest White, Dark Waters, Ad Astra, Knives Out. Values movie-star performances and gets visibly fond of overlooked films like Peterloo and Triple Frontier.
Stances
Portrait of a Lady on Fire is the year's best
Dark Waters will be re-evaluated; the film is underrated
Prefers Toy Story 4 more than expected
Humor: Dry; plays straight man and throws in lines like 'Absolute 0 Popes' reactions and the Becker running joke.
In their words
“That has been the movie for me all year.” (1:09:50)
Champion of Infinity War: loves how Thanos is the real protagonist and how the movie argues for caring about every character. Hates the idea that deaths must be final to matter, and loves actors' craft and box-office trivia. Nervous flyer who loves a road trip to Toronto.
Stances
Thanos is the protagonist and the film is about every character mattering
Killing characters is uninteresting; the loss is what counts
The MCU's crossover structure is a cinematic accomplishment
Humor: Deadpan overshare and cheerful self-roast, especially about his fear of flying.
In their words
“I'm a very nervous flyer.” (0:00:52)
“I think killing characters is uninteresting and usually, like, I just don't care for it.” (2:26:40)
Loves rules, systems and well-set-up action (Infinity Stone rules, Gamora's type-A bossiness, clear action goals); a box-office and Marvel-billing obsessive who makes spreadsheets. Respects Lee Pace's operatic villain and Drax. Dislikes Marvel's post-production sheen and the 'house style' gray. Speaker attribution is inferred from the room's teasing and is uncertain.
Stances
Lee Pace's Ronan is a great, underrated Marvel villain
Marvel's color grading is bad but the art direction is good
Humor in Guardians works as a storytelling aid
Humor: Gets teased as a bossy rules-loving spreadsheet guy and plays along with deadpan.
In their words
“I like type A tightwad characters.” (0:27:52)
“I like the Infinity Stone stuff because I like rules.” (1:10:54)
Their shows' recurring bits
Running bits, not opinions; a critic read aloud is cited, not present.
The Big Picture
Drafts: Hosts and guests draft films in rounds; every pick is a recommendation with an argument.
Hall of Fame: A star's or director's best, ranked and argued.
Countdowns: Ranked lists, top five or top ten.
Blank Check with Griffin & David
The box office game: Guessing the film's opening weekend and what it was up against.
The sung theme: "Blank Check with Griffin and David", sung; the transcriber garbles it.
Their claims
Showing 901–1,000 of 1,091 claims.
unmapped (dismissed):
Meryl Streep → The Laundromat.
Worst Putters and Murmurs: dislikes her slightly haunted older lady mode and the brown-face.
career (career):
Don Cheadle → Devil in a Blue Dress.
His late-90s emergence in Devil in a Blue Dress and Out of Sight made every appearance worth waiting for.
“he was in like devil in a blue dress and out of sight and things like that.”
contrast (contrast):
Joaquin Phoenix → Benedict Cumberbatch.
Cumberbatch is a classically trained actor who can make pretend feel real; Phoenix is an autodidact who cannot.
“classically trained theater actor who is like, I can make pretend things feel real.”
craft (craft):
Tom Hardy → Joaquin Phoenix.
Like Hardy jumping into the lobster tank, Phoenix likes surprises in front of him that a green-screen movie cannot give.
career (career):
Alan Taylor → Game of Thrones.
Taylor was hired as the Game of Thrones helmsman; the studio's note was to make the film feel more like Game of Thrones.
“We want to make this feel more like Game of Thrones.”
craft (craft):
Thor: The Dark World → Game of Thrones.
The film aims for a grounded, muddy fantasy in the Game of Thrones manner, away from Branagh's version.
“We want to make a more grounded fantasy away from the bran off.”
what-if (what-if):
Thor: The Dark World → Patty Jenkins.
Jenkins is described as the director Natalie Portman wanted, and Portman left the franchise after Jenkins was fired without her approval.
what-if (what-if):
Thor: The Dark World → Natalie Portman.
Portman had approval over director and script; the Jenkins firing is why she was done with these movies.
“She didn't have anything on the Alan Taylor thing, and she was like, I'm done with these.”
industry (industry):
Thor: The Dark World → Iron Man 3.
This and Iron Man 3 are the first Marvel films with no Paramount logo before the Avengers logo.
“this and Iron Man 3 are the 1st 2 movies fully devoid of Paramount, right?”
theme (theme):
Thor: The Dark World → Crazy Rich Asians.
Like Crazy Rich Asians, the real romance is the lead and the mother figure; Thor's love is figurehead-level.
“Crazy Rich Asians is really the romance between her and the mother”
industry (industry):
Thor: The Dark World → Thor.
Dark World opened to 85 million, up from 65 for the first Thor, but is the lowest grossing sequel in the MCU.
“It's also the lowest grossing sequel in the MCU.”
what-if (what-if):
Thor: The Dark World → Thor: Ragnarok.
Thor: Ragnarok also loses Sif and Natalie Portman's Jane; the speakers wish Sif had returned for Endgame.
craft (craft):
Thor: The Dark World → Kramer Morgenthau.
After naming the cinematographer, the speaker says the film has its own look, palette and cinematic language, distinct from Iron Man 3.
contrast (contrast):
Thor: The Dark World → Guardians of the Galaxy.
The next film, Guardians, becomes candy colored, which is what that film needs, versus this serious look.
“you get to like Guardians next and it like becomes like candy colored”
contrast (contrast):
Thor: The Dark World → Iron Man 3.
Each Phase 2 film has its own look: this one is serious, Iron Man 3 resembles a 90s action film, Winter Soldier approximates a Sydney Pollack movie, Guardians is candy colored.
contrast (contrast):
Thor: The Dark World → Thor: Ragnarok.
The Dark World's palette feels like watercolor fantasy illustration; Ragnarok is full Kirby comic book.
“closer to like watercolor illustrations in a fantasy novel.”
industry (industry):
Thor: The Dark World → Avengers: Infinity War.
The ether is the second Infinity Gem; the speakers tally the stones across Mind, Space, Power, Reality, Time and Soul films.
craft (craft):
Thor → Thor: Ragnarok.
The first Thor looks too clean; Ragnarok overcorrects to cartoony comic splash page; the Dark World's polished gold sits between.
career (career):
Anthony Hopkins → Red Dragon.
After Hannibal money, Hopkins appeared in Red Dragon, which is a remake of Manhunter but worse, ruining the franchise per his son.
industry (industry):
Bohemian Rhapsody → Bryan Singer.
The speakers say Bohemian Rhapsody's critics are partly about its director, and joke about Singer becoming president.
theme (theme):
Thor: The Dark World → While You Were Sleeping.
Jane's fake-out (it was all a dream) is likened to While You Were Sleeping with Peter Gallagher and Bill Pullman.
theme (theme):
Thor: The Dark World → Alita: Battle Angel.
Griffin's line from his Alita review frames this film: he is defenseless before silly sci-fi epics that dump lore through a simple hero's journey, like Jupiter Ascending, Valerian, Aquaman.
“Think of films like Jupe, ascending, Valerian, Aquaman, colorful mega budget, nonsense splash into a grand canvas.”
programming (programming):
Thor: The Dark World → Guardians of the Galaxy.
The Collector mid-credits scene already shows the Guardians' comic space weirdness; the speaker thinks James Gunn directed it.
lineage (lineage):
Thor: The Dark World → Doctor Who.
Marvel in general is indebted to Doctor Who's tone of lightness, comedy, hope and teamwork, especially the Russell T Davies era.
“I think Marvel in general is very kind of indebted to Doctor Who with the same tone of like lightness and comedy and hope and team teamwork.”
craft (craft):
Joss Whedon → Serenity.
Answers the 'TV guy' worry about the Avengers trailers by pointing at Serenity as proof Whedon can direct with visual panache.
“Serenity is an incredibly well-directed movie with a lot of visual panache.”
people (people):
Tom Hiddleston → Thor.
Notes Loki's first-film look/context; Ben hasn't seen Thor or Cap in the lineup, which is why they watched them today.
“We've recorded these 3 episodes, Thor, America, and Avengers.”
industry (industry):
Jeremy Renner → Iron Man 2.
Hawkeye is set up here in Thor and Avengers rather than earlier; Renner is brainwashed for most of the film and complained about it.
“for like the 1st one hour and 50 minutes he's brainwashed and he's just as like, yes, Loki, whatever you say.”
craft (craft):
Joss Whedon → Iron Man 2.
Whedon told Marvel that Black Widow had not really been set up in Iron Man 2 and the character foundations were shaky.
“I took a look at that Iron Man 2 picture. you had, didn't notice a lot of character work.”
contrast (contrast):
The Avengers → Olympus Has Fallen.
The opening tunnel car chase is dismissed as Olympus-Has-Fallen-level dull, though later Marvel films do it more elaborately and no better.
industry (industry):
The Avengers → The Incredible Hulk.
Pre-Avengers grosses (Iron Man ~300, Hulk ~150, Cap ~170) suggested a glass ceiling; the unaccounted factor was the movie being very good.
“And then the X factor I wasn't considering was, what if movie very good?”
what-if (what-if):
Mark Ruffalo → Joaquin Phoenix.
Ruffalo and Phoenix were the short list to replace Norton; Feige keeps courting Phoenix (Doctor Strange too) and Phoenix only did Joker because it was twisted.
“Kevin Feige is always trying to get Joaquin Phoenix to do one of these movies.”
career (career):
Scarlett Johansson → Iron Man 2.
The Avengers uses Johansson (and Black Widow's Russian-scene vulnerability-as-weapon) better than anything since 2003, and better than Iron Man 2's secretary-spy version.
“This is the better version of that where he's like, she has been trained in a weird Russian program to be able to manipulate anybody.”
programming (programming):
Captain Marvel → The Avengers.
Captain Marvel is a 1990s prequel in which Fury still has both eyes, bringing back Coulson/Fury; they predict nineties-reference gags.
industry (industry):
Harry Dean Stanton → The Avengers.
The cameo was written as a nine-page Hulk conversation, shot in full, cut to a beat; the long version is on the DVD.
“there should be like a 9 page dialogue scene with the Hulk talks with an old security man about the nature of humanity and they shot all of it”
programming (programming):
The Avengers → Guardians of the Galaxy.
Thanos' Chitauri subcontracting sets up the cosmic films; Guardians is next on their Marvel list.
contrast (contrast):
The Avengers → Avengers: Age of Ultron.
Age of Ultron opens with the team already together and Fury in hiding, so it is a sequel to five films rather than to Avengers.
“Avengers 2 can't be a sequel to Avengers one. It has to be a sequel to 5 other moments.”
contrast (contrast):
The Avengers → Man of Steel.
Man of Steel's similar downtown destruction finale feels unreal with random civilians; Avengers grounds it in the street.
industry (industry):
Joss Whedon → Justice League.
Warner brought Whedon in after filming to retroactively make it more like Avengers, with reshoots adding jokes and replicated family cutaways.
“they bring in Joss Whedon after they've filmed the entire movie and go like, can you retroactively make it into more like Avengers?”
craft (craft):
Captain America: The First Avenger → Thor.
Both Marvel origin films avoid dropping the audience straight into a stylized world and open on a grounded genre set-up.
“This is the exact same structural thing as Thor, where it's like, let's not drop people into crazy stylized world.”
craft (craft):
Hugo Weaving → Werner Herzog.
Weaving built his Red Skull on a Herzog impression, with the same merciless anthropological view of humanity.
lineage (lineage):
Captain America: The First Avenger → Iron Man 2.
The Stark Expo of the 1940s is the origin of the Expo seen in Iron Man 2, now as the full World's Fair version.
“Like what we see in Iron Man 2, but now it's like the full like 40s World Fair version.”
fun, about
Doctor Sleep (title):
The title comes from Danny's humane way of easing people dying in a hospice, a minor thread; some say it should have been Shining 2.
“It's funny that the title of the movie comes from like his very humane way of helping people be at ease before they die, a very sort of minor plot thread.”
fun, about
A Clockwork Orange:
Kubrick pulled the film from Britain a year after release and it stayed out until his death; it was banned in Ireland until 1999.
fun, about
A Clockwork Orange:
McDowell scratched his cornea during the eyedrop scenes and the numbing wore off in the car; a speed bump felt like a razor blade.
fun, about
Dr. Strangelove:
The release was delayed by the Kennedy assassination; a speaker also notes the President is the last reasonable president in an American satire, because Kennedy was in office.
“this movie was delayed because of the assassination of Kennedy.”
fun, about
Terry Southern:
Sellers gave Kubrick The Magic Christian, which brought Southern in; the dossier read is that Kubrick wrote it, George inspired it, and Southern made it funny.
“JJ's read on the screenplay, though, is that it's Dubrick wrote it.”
fun, about
Dr. Strangelove:
The first page of the screenplay says the story will be played for realistic comedy and the acting will never be so-called comedy acting.
“The 1st page of the screenplay says, the story will be played for realistic comedy”
fun, about
Gene Kelly:
The original plan for Jack D. Ripper was Gene Kelly. Kubrick then cast George C. Scott, who asked to play Turgidson instead, and brought in Sterling Hayden.
“You know who the original plan was to cast for Jack D. Ripper, the Sterling Hayden Row?”
fun, about
James Earl Jones:
Jones had a big role questioning the mission; Kubrick decided he did not want the protesting crew member to be a Black actor and cut it. Jones told him he took the part for the cut material.
“eventually Kubrick decided he didn't want the guy protesting to be a black guy and cuts everything out.”
fun, about
Dr. Strangelove:
Kubrick wrote down about thirty alternate titles, including Wonderful Bomb, Dr. Doomsday, and Dr. Strangelove's Secret Uses of Uranus.
“The weird one is Dr. Strangelove's secret uses of Uranus.”
fun, about
Kirk Douglas:
In Munich the rewritten script had a happy ending; Douglas threatened to walk. Kubrick calmly said he wanted a commercial hit.
fun, about
Kola Kwariani (Nick the Wrestler):
A former wrestler Kubrick met through chess circles, he died at 77 after fighting five teenagers outside his chess club.
“He was 76 years old and he was leaving his regular chess club where he played and he was jumped by 5 teenagers”
fun, about
Fear and Desire:
The poster sells a 'half animal girl' with an illustration of a kissed neck, making the war movie look supernatural.
“An illustration of, uh, Paul Mizurski kissing her neck that makes it look consensual, and says, fear and desire, trapped for desperate man, and a strange half animal girl.”
fun, about
Alien: Covenant:
Originally titled Alien: Paradise Lost; Damon Lindelof was going to write it before bailing, then John Logan, with a first script by the Transcendence writer and a Michael Green rewrite.
“Initially, it was going to be called Alien Paradise Lost.”
fun, about
Ridley Scott:
Scott gave interviews saying there would be no aliens or xenomorphs, then reversed; the hosts wonder if it was him or the studio telling him to put aliens in.
“initially Scott was giving these interviews where he was like, there won't be aliens”
fun, about
Alien: Covenant:
The online prologue with James Franco and Noomi Rapace is not in the film; the initial cut ran about 2.5 hours and Scott trimmed the franchise stuff.
“it was this thing with James Franco, who is not in this movie, although you see him in like photos.”
fun, about
Ron Perlman:
The basketball shot: Weaver actually sank it over her shoulder on a quick take and Perlman's reaction is real; no visual effects.
fun, about
Sigourney Weaver:
Weaver would not let toys be made with guns for years; Resurrection was the only time, and no collector figure for 15 years after.
“one of the key reasons was because she didn't want her action figures coming with guns.”
fun, about
You've Got Mail:
The box office for December 18, 1998: You've Got Mail at number one, ahead of Prince of Egypt, A Bug's Life, Star Trek: Insurrection, and Jack Frost.
“So number one, though, it's you've got mail, $18 million.”
fun, about
Jack Frost:
The animatronic Jack Frost snowman was built from the likeness of George Clooney, who dropped out late; Michael Keaton replaced him.
“But they built it off of the likeness of the actor who was supposed to play the title role who dropped out very late.”